Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Is there any proof wildlife is suffering from the ingestion of lead?
I thought micro plastic was the big issue and avian influenza!!
Subsonic lead free alternative to .22
I thought micro plastic was the big issue and avian influenza!!
The non toxic hmr rounds work very well
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
The drive for non lead .22 will be lead by target shooting, the ranges will have to go non toxic or install expensive lead recovery systems. Sub sonic will probably not happen, but maybe a less than .22 caliber bullet encased in a sabot compatible with current barrel twist and action pressures is on the way?
Only used them on Rabbits and squirrels plus avian vermin, as effective if not more than the 17gr lead I used to use
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
The WMR 25gn ntx was quite good to be honest.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Apart from dumping more micro plastic into the environment that's sounds quite interesting.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
The sabot could be paper, all it needs to do is seal the barrel and transfer spin to the projectile.
I don’t see any other option, the non lead bullets are too prone to wind drift in standard .22 profile but you could make a really aerodynamic .177 bullet the same weight.
Squirrelbasher
Well-Known Member
What do you mean?
All the .22 ranges I’ve ever shot on already recover their lead as a matter of practice. Most .22 target rounds are already sub sonic.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Right on both counts, but the proposed new requirements are much stricter for both rifle and shotgun ranges.
.22 non lead is a real problem because it has to fit into a specification more than 100years old with literally millions of rifles out there. It has to work for both traditional small game hunting and international target shooting in firearms that are already out there, that’s going to be a big ask, given the perfection of current offerings.
If the UK was going lead free on its own, you would be in trouble but since it’s both you and the entire EU there will be viable alternatives for international competition or there will be a lot of exemptions.
I suspect the relevant Olympic committees and governing bodies are already working on the new ammunition regulations post lead ban.
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even the smaller ranges are onto converting their ranges to lead recovery systems at present .
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Have a read of
There a lot of studies published in the last couple of years from North America, UK and Europe.
And yes microplastics are also a major issue not yet recognised.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
The government would have to offer financial compensation should the 22LR be rendered useless, £100 per rifle sounds low but would probably be fair given the number of cheap old brno’s etc.
How many in the UK, say 250,000? That’s £25m in compensation.
Or will they just screw the 22LR owners and claim they can still shoot HV rounds and new ammo has ‘acceptable’ accuracy - most likely outcome
How many in the UK, say 250,000? That’s £25m in compensation.
Or will they just screw the 22LR owners and claim they can still shoot HV rounds and new ammo has ‘acceptable’ accuracy - most likely outcome
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Taken from the article.Have a read of
There a lot of studies published in the last couple of years from North America, UK and Europe.
And yes microplastics are also a major issue not yet recognised.
"How big is the problem?
At present, there are only formal estimates of the impact of lead ammunition on wildfowl, some birds of prey, and gamebirds such as grey partridge22,31.".
There is an x-ray image of a birds gizzard full of metallic shot. How do we know it was from a wild bird and not a force fed captured bird?
Thanks for the link but I personally have not come across an unexplainable sick animal suffering the effects of toxicity other than rats after eating rat poison. I have found birds ill with bird flu. Rabbits ill with mxy and watched colonies disappear from vhd. But I've never seen anything having seizures, fits or semi comatose from ingesting lead!
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Have a read of this. As I said earlier there are lots of different studies go on on the effects of lead in both man and animals and birds. The working thesis is that at low levels it affects the way the immune system tackles infections and tumors. And there is work which has shown that using chelation to remove lead prior to chemotherapy dramatically improves the long term outcomes of patients with secondary acute myeloid leukaemia. This work has now funded to do further trials to bring this to mainstream treatment for disease such Acute Myeloid Leukaemia and Small Cell lung Cancer.
Birds of prey populations suppressed by lead poisoning from gun ammo
New study uses data on lead levels in the livers of thousands of dead raptors to calculate the impact of lead poisoning on population size.
And
Plecoid™ Agents - Pleco Therapeutics
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Having tested some non-lead ammo in the last year and found some which works beautifully (not in 22lr), I’d say there’s no reason not to move forward with non-lead alternatives. However, I strongly believe the use of lead should continue to be permitted for target shooting, where there is frankly no reason for its ban. As for the 22lr subsonic issue with non-lead for pest control, that’s a real problem I admit, as well as for springer air rifles. I believe the proposals should allow for a further 5 year extension of lead being permitted for these (and other affected calibres/chamberings) to allow time to develop suitable alternatives. That would be a fair response in my view, and I’d take/accept that offer.
I don’t think it will. It’ll just mean people use air rifles instead of .22LR subs, but it'll still be used.
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Pellet Pinger
Well-Known Member
Air rifles with non lead will struggle to fill the boots of a 22lr i would have thought.
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