Impact of the Trophy Ban

[Sol]

I'm an artist at heart and real pelts and skulls are highly Important for myself for drawing refences and material to others in my artist friend group, As expected while I enjoy hunting "Trophies" are also highly important to myself so while a hunt abroad would be for for the experience the after match Is also highly important for my other hobbies.

Its the reason I've asked a Taxidermist already for exotics, Even though the horns and antlers are chopped off there still invaluable tool for myself.
So yes, however you probably wont see me hunting anything that's now banned for export... unless Its something I was very interested in ( American/Canadian Grey Wolf is about the only thing that comes to mind?) But same time with there imports being banned It screws with my ethics since Its not a edible animal per-say.

 

[Lukeamog]

Not all trophies

Am I reading this all wrong ? Endangered species cites etc no ... non Endangered species plains game kudu springbok etc no change ?

thats how I see it only real change for African game is elephant hippo/ the cats and a few duiker/ sable / gemsbok and a few gazelle

 

[stevec]

I am going again in a few months. I don't plan on bring a trophy back and don't ever plan on bringing one back, it is just too expensive, although I would like to, as a souvenir. I can't see myself ever doing anything other than management hunting due to the cost.

I am not the looser in this situation, but the operator, already running on a marginal basis in most cases are and the local community who are deprived of thier share of a trophy fee certainly are.

 

[sikamalc]

I doubt it will impact much on those wishing or going to Africa. Most of my hunting was in the 1990s.
Certainly wouldn't stop me doing what I was born to to.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Apologies if it has been said before in the longer thread, but why does bringing a trophy back make any difference to the decision to go and hoot the animal?

I'm comfortable with the link of hunting income and conservation and morally see no difference between shooting a kudu and a red stag, but I don't understand what the problem is with the bill as it not preventing anyone going hunting. What am I missing?

Now, dear SD types, I'm asking partly as I will use this in the undergraduate course I am creating and teaching as an example of use of animals, so please, keep the comments sensible

It definitely would. I hunt primarily for meat and even ‘if’ I ever hunted in Africa, I would want to try the game. At least if I went somewhere like Africa, I would know that the vast majority of the meat is shared out so that makes me more comfortable with the idea.
But if I went all that way, I would want to take something back. Be it a euro mount skull or a shoulder mount here. I keep a lot of the antlers from uk hunts anyway,(even the poorer ones) so I guess it’s just more of a nostalgia thing than anything. The whole bill seems daft when we’re probably proportionally one of the smallest countries to hunt abroad. But where will it stop? Maybe it will end up including elk from the states and mouflon from Europe.

 

[sh1kar]

Joking aside, it was a serious point I was trying to make.

Mozambique ten years ago, picked these (literally off the ground) as souvenirs.

View attachment 300630

View attachment 300631

The porcupine quills (stock image) were actually the result of a lion kill. I remember the tracker 'parcelled' them in grass (as we walked) and handed them to me. They are down in the 'Man Cave' now.

The shells, liberally scattered everywhere, told of a bygone time when (perhaps) the land was underwater.

Brought them back through Customs (Mozambique, South Africa and London) without a thought or a care in the world.

Fast forward ten years. The warning signs are everywhere. It's all changed.

Prison is not funny. Prison in Africa? Not even remotely funny.

I literally 'searched myself' before we set off for home, to ensure that I was not inadvertently carrying any contraband.

View attachment 300632

Your shells aren’t fossils but current animals

Lissachatina fulica - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Hunter300]

I will ALWAYS hunt abroad, however I am not a trophy hunter

 

[Cumbrian 1]

Surely if we are a member of CITES then a permit is issued to allow the import of say elephant or lion then surely the UK should abide by that decision.

 

[Tim.243]

Your shells aren’t fossils but current animals

Lissachatina fulica - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

David,
Local (in the field across the road) a real fossil not from Lee cockle sheds








@Stalker1962

 

[cjm1066]

To import the trophies was very expensive, I would rather spend the money on more hunting.

 

[sh1kar]

David,
Local (in the field across the road) a real fossil not from Lee cockle shedsView attachment 300740








@Stalker1962

Used to pick up quite a lot of stuff on bracklesham bay

 

[British Shooting Services]

Just been going through CITES to see exactly what extra animals would be covered by the new legislation.

Yes there are extra animals, but if you read CITES in conjunction with its appendices, the changes are very limited, some of the species now with trophy bans are:
duiker (blue / red / yellow backed)
some of the cat species
brown Hyaena
primates (my baboon skulls may have to stay there)
Lechwe
crocodile
hippo
rhino
elephant

Plains game are mainly unaffected. Larger species normally hunted are not affected because they are a different genus of a species which do not have overall species protection. Examples below:
Gemsbok, Oryx Gazella (noted by CITES as being of no population concern)- OK TO IMPORT
Sable , Hippotragus niger niger ( noted by CITES as being of no population concern) OK TO IMPORT
Giant / Royal Sable, Hippotragus niger variani (Noted by CITES as being of concern / endangered) ALREADY ON LIST BEFORE NEW ACT.
Arabian Oryx , Oryx leucoryx - ALREADY ON LIST BEFORE NEW ACT.
Scimitar horned Oryx, Oryx dammah - ALREADY ON LIST BEFORE NEW ACT.
Roan, Hippotragus equines - ( noted by CITES as being of no population concern) OK TO IMPORT

So your usual animals, Impala, Kudu, Eland, wildebeest, steenbok, Nyala, Bushbuck, springbok, klipspringer, buffalo, et, etc are not affected.

As I have said before, this new so called legislation can not provide any extra protection to any animal that is at risk and does not add any extra protection to that which was already in place, it is a political vote grabbing exercise.

 

[bowji john]

I suspect this legislation might well be a fizzle

Perhaps even an own goal - as it starts to highlight the failure to listen to scientific analysis and the readiness of politicians to make poor quality, populous decisions on our behalf in order that they might ‘ look good ‘

Whilst at Bisley this weekend I also heard (not confirmed) that several countries (including Zambia) have asked to be excluded from this Bill

 

[nic531]

for me personally, i do not feel the need for trophies. I have the memories and for me that is enough. I cannot envisage myself having sufficient spare cash to afford to go hunting in Africa. Even in this country i have no interest at all in heads and trophies and points bronze silver gold whatever.
Never has interested me nor can i really see the point.
I hunt for the pot and to control numbers in a location... the latter causing me to always target a doe rather than a buck if choice/season permits.

 

[Cumbrian 1]

for me personally, i do not feel the need for trophies. I have the memories and for me that is enough. I cannot envisage myself having sufficient spare cash to afford to go hunting in Africa. Even in this country i have no interest at all in heads and trophies and points bronze silver gold whatever.
Never has interested me nor can i really see the point.
I hunt for the pot and to control numbers in a location... the latter causing me to always target a doe rather than a buck if choice/season permits.

This comment very much sums up the ignorance around hunting in Africa. It is not about controlling numbers, or filling your belly but taking a very few select animals, normally males who are past their prime and the proceeds go back into helping conservation in the area where they are taken.

Whether that be improved facilities for the locals I.e. funding for schools, anti poaching patrols, research etc.

The largest animal is not automatically selected unless it is deemed to have matured and passed on its genes.

A trophy is simply a memento to remember the trip, often a photo will suffice .

 

[Dickie]

Well with all the freezer filler / one for the pot hunters we have I’m surprised we ever get complaints about game dealers and the prices they give.
Lots of a lack of understanding of how African hunting works and that pretty much the only thing not used or taken is the blood in the dust on the ground

The cost is what would prevent me now especially the increase in travel.

 

[ColinJ]

Happy to be proved wrong, but the proposed ban covers Lion, Leopard, Elephant and Crocodile. That’s about it, isn’t it?

 

[stevec]

Happy to be proved wrong, but the proposed ban covers Lion, Leopard, Elephant and Crocodile. That’s about it, isn’t it?

I think Hippo as well

 

[nic531]

This comment very much sums up the ignorance around hunting in Africa. It is not about controlling numbers, or filling your belly but taking a very few select animals, normally males who are past their prime and the proceeds go back into helping conservation in the area where they are taken.

Whether that be improved facilities for the locals I.e. funding for schools, anti poaching patrols, research etc.

The largest animal is not automatically selected unless it is deemed to have matured and passed on its genes.

A trophy is simply a memento to remember the trip, often a photo will suffice .

I do know a little bit about the hunting in Africa, not much as I have never been, admittedly, just from talking to a friend that works organising trips. I know that if they lose the income from hunting, then they cannot regain it from other means... where they hunt is apparently in the Tsetse belt hence not good for tourists.

The point i was trying to make is that people could still hunt without the bringing back of trophies. That surely must be a smaller part of the income generated from the hunting. It is however a huge piece of ammunition that can be used by the anti's with easy PR output, especially when even people that shoot in this country are not all interested in 'trophies'.

 

[Stalker62]

The point i was trying to make is that people could still hunt without the bringing back of trophies. That surely must be a smaller part of the income generated from the hunting.

You could not be more wrong.

Last November I shot a Kudu.

It cost $x to pull the trigger.

Although we had all agreed that no one was good to bring back any 'trophies' on this safari, this Kudu was so good that I wobbled, and looked to fetch it home.

When I had the quotes in for dipping, packing, transport to SA, taxidermy, import/export taxes (the list is impressive), the price to get that Kudu (skull mount only) home, was four times what I paid to shoot it. Four times.

Needless to say, it still sits in Africa - generating no income for local economies and leaving a (massive) space in my 'Man Cave".