As it seems to be the done thing... Surrey/Sussex FAC timeline

[Steve Q]

I have heard recently that the Sussex FELU has been augmented by a Sargeant and 4 PCs to help clear the backlog.
As some have mentioned, they are focussing on new applications and renewals, so best not to apply for a Variation unless it is REALLY important - it will just slow things down further, but with luck there will be some progress soon.

I am glad that the FEOs are being more robust in the vetting of new applications, as we really do not need any more incidents / deaths, otherwise the next (Labour?) government will use it as excuse to ban shooting completely.

 

[Jh1986]

FEO call today. Visit Wednesday to argue calibre. Biscuits at the ready

 

[long_range_rob]

FEO call today. Visit Wednesday to argue calibre. Biscuits at the ready

Discuss the issue of 100gn minimum requirement in Scotland and .243 having trouble stabilising 100gn copper. Always good to have your ducks lined up before they arrive

 

[Jh1986]

Discuss the issue of 100gn minimum requirement in Scotland and .243 having trouble stabilising 100gn copper. Always good to have your ducks lined up before they arrive

Literally sat online now, going over it all. Although it seems 243 copper can work on larger deer (99% fallow here), it does seem skill and experience play a larger role than usual. This somewhat negates the argument for 243 as a "beginner" calibre.

I've more experience of 308 than any other calibre, having fired more 308 rounds.

Scotland is 100% on my list. I've been wanting to do our next family holiday up there, and I would definitely slip off for an early morning booking.

Maybe the FEO will angle for a 6.5 CM

 

[Jh1986]

Looks like a 308 for paid stalking and mentored use.

 

[Morkai]

Looks like a 308 for paid stalking and mentored use.

Specifically paid stalking and mentored use.

Not for Deer where you have permission to shoot and where the land is deemed suitable?

 

[Morkai]

Both sound pretty pointless, what is 'mentored' use and why paid, what about invites or obtained ground in the future?

Another future variation to your FAC so you can go on invites without paying a pound.....more paperwork for the sake of it.

 

[Jh1986]

Both sound pretty pointless, what is 'mentored' use and why paid, what about invites or obtained ground in the future?

Another variation to your FAC so you can go on invites without paying a pound in the future.....more paperwork for the sake of it.

I have no permission as yet (working on it). Also, DSC1 and a bit of stalking under the belt wasn't really seen as experienced enough to "let loose" so to speak.

The idea being that I would stalk under a mentor (already in hand) and paid stalks for a while (6-12 months with a proven history of clean kills and multiple conditions) whilst trying to obtain permission.

It did seem as though paid and invitational stalking is less "good reason" and that land is key. It was clear that doing the occasional paid stalk would not suffice for good reason.

 

[Morkai]

It did seem as though paid and invitational stalking is less "good reason" and that land is key. It was clear that doing the occasional paid stalk would not suffice for good reason.

Sounds wrong to me, Im sure others with far more knowledge of the guidance will clarify.

 

[Ausfild]

I have no permission as yet (working on it). Also, DSC1 and a bit of stalking under the belt wasn't really seen as experienced enough to "let loose" so to speak.

The idea being that I would stalk under a mentor (already in hand) and paid stalks for a while (6-12 months with a proven history of clean kills and multiple conditions) whilst trying to obtain permission.

It did seem as though paid and invitational stalking is less "good reason" and that land is key. It was clear that doing the occasional paid stalk would not suffice for good reason.

I am following this thread because although I have a .308 on my FAC for target shooting I want to get it changed for hunting, my plan was to accumulate enough paid stalks to justify the change but seems pointless now that I saw this comment.

 

[Jh1986]

I am following this thread because although I have a .308 on my FAC for target shooting I want to get it changed for hunting, my plan was to accumulate enough paid stalks to justify the change but seems pointless now that I saw this comment.

You are the same area as me too, since Surrey & Sussex paired up. I did explain that it's a bit of a catch 22 situation for non land-owners. You need experience and your own rifle before any land owner is going to give permission, but they don't like to grant on paid stalks alone. It's no good getting a permission and then telling the land owner to wait for months whilst you wait for your grant. Regarding paid stalks as your reason, it was basically said that paid stalks alone would cost an arm and a leg and likely not be kept up sufficiently. It was specifically said that going on a couple of paid stalks a year would not be seen as sufficient.

This is where the mentor condition comes into play. Gives the police that safety net of ensuring you are gaining that experience safely. I was half expecting it.

 

[Ausfild]

You are the same area as me too, since Surrey & Sussex paired up. I did explain that it's a bit of a catch 22 situation for non land-owners. You need experience and your own rifle before any land owner is going to give permission, but they don't like to grant on paid stalks alone. It's no good getting a permission and then telling the land owner to wait for months whilst you wait for your grant. Regarding paid stalks as your reason, it was basically said that paid stalks alone would cost an arm and a leg and likely not be kept up sufficiently. It was specifically said that going on a couple of paid stalks a year would not be seen as sufficient.

This is where the mentor condition comes into play. Gives the police that safety net of ensuring you are gaining that experience safely. I was half expecting it.

Do you fancy creating a syndicate? Because I cannot see other way of sorting this out. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Jh1986]

Do you fancy creating a syndicate? Because I cannot see other way of sorting this out. It makes absolutely no sense.

I know, it does seem an awkward predicament. I will see where I am in 6-12 months time. If I am still unable to obtain land, then a syndicate may well be the only way.

 

[Jh1986]

 

[Jagdmatch]

https://firearmsuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Use-of-conditions-April-13.pdf

This may be of interest to you. Of course on an initial grant it may not be the best option to argue the point but paid stalks are effectively mentoring.Malcolm on here or Richard Whitely are both sensible and local enough to you. Although overlooked I would seriously consider joining the NRA or another shooting club as it gives you further good reason

 

[Jh1986]

https://firearmsuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Use-of-conditions-April-13.pdf

This may be of interest to you. Of course on an initial grant it may not be the best option to argue the point but paid stalks are effectively mentoring.Malcolm on here or Richard Whitely are both sensible and local enough to you. Although overlooked I would seriously consider joining the NRA or another shooting club as it gives you further good reason

I am a BASC member, which was very important to the FEO in terms of public liability insurance. I have already got my mentor sorted, with a guy I was on the DSC1 with (although years of experience in deer stalking).

Edit: I will say that actually, mentoring does make a lot of sense to me and I have no problems with it. For me, it's the fact that paid and invitational stalking doesn't constitute good reason. That's going to put stalking into a huge decline as land gets sewn up in the dead man's shoes cycle.

 

[martin_b]

Could you join a club at Bisley and get target experience in what ever deer calibre's you fancy, them maybe asking for a change of use variation might be simpler? Just thinking aloud!

 

[Jh1986]

Could you join a club at Bisley and get target experience in what ever deer calibre's you fancy, them maybe asking for a change of use variation might be simpler? Just thinking aloud!

The FEO was very clear that it's field experience that will get you a deer ticket. Target and DSC1 are just the basics. She explained that field experience is key, and that is experience over a decent timeframe, with a decent carcass count, and over varying conditions

 

[martin_b]

The FEO was very clear that it's field experience that will get you a deer ticket. Target and DSC1 are just the basics. She explained that field experience is key, and that is experience over a decent timeframe, with a decent carcass count, and over varying conditions

Fair enough, I stick to paper punching, seems a simpler life! ( till I put in for a 41XC/Cheytac )

 

[Gudgeon]

Seems very harsh interpretation to me. In Norfolk my original grant included .308 based on about 6 paid accompanied stalks and a letter allowing unaccompanied paid stalks when I had my ticket. "Why do you need a .308?" the FEO asked. I said "because I want my deer dead whether its a muntjac or a red, at all ranges, in the open or in the wood."