Trader sold me a burnt out 22-250 ???

[Taff]

Latest update:

Called in the shop on Saturday. Spoke with the owner who took the gun out. Showed me a pic on his phone of 5 shots he'd put through it at around 85 yards. 40 grain federal I believe.
The 'group' was shocking, about 2" or so. When I told him that was shocking, he started to explain that the 'first shot was high, so I adjusted the scope, then the second shot was' .................. Stop there I said. You weren't supposed to be zeroing it, you were supposed to be shooting a group to check for shot consistency. He didn't even take my moderator but took one from the shop!!

Some of the other things we discussed were how many different sets/brands of scopes and mounts I'd tried, different ammo, how I zeroed it etc. Off a bipod and bag, I explained.
Then questioned my shooting style and experience.

Then things got silly and I had to really bite my lip..... Grrrrrr

He asked me if I wore my reading glasses when shooting. Erm, no, they're for reading. Then told me I should!!! (What a Bell smacker)
He also told me fixed mag scopes are more accurate than scopes with a zoom.

At this point, I told him I shoot much better groups at 100yds with my CZ 17 Hmr and went back to the barrel condition. Despite my rigorous cleaning and the fact that 2 separate people at another gun shop have said it's fire cracked and worn, he's adamant it's just heavy copper fouling. With that said, I've asked if it can be scoped again and a digital recording sent to me.= to which he has agreed.


He's taking it back out sometime this week, but I think I know the answer already because he's told me 'It'll be the moderator, definitely'.


I'll let you all know how I get on

Just a few points
I would expect a better group from a 17 hmr
Variables can be problematic ( depending on quality of scope) if changing mag when shooting at set distances
His explanation about zeroing the scope , is his explanation, you should have said can you please shoot it in a gun vice, if you had said stop there to me I would have asked you to leave.
He may be right about the moderator, had a ar10 threaded by Hardy’s and one of there suppressors, shot sxxt, until it was redone and a new suppressor.
I know nothing of the gun shop, but at least they are going out of there way, considering the time since you purchased the rifle and they only have your word for how many shots you have used.
Here is a true story of one of my customers
A brand new bergarra 300 win mag, four months old, Gun will not group.
Apparently has fire cracking in throat of barrel, so a gun smith he knows has told him
Only fired factory loads. Perhaps 30 rounds
We ring bergarra importer, who says send gun direct to there Gun Smith in the South Island ( regarded as the best gun smith, gun maker in NZ)
Interesting reply and photos returned with rifle, normal wear in throat for a magnum, and a lovely picture of a primer in the chamber, probably caused by loading to hot a load and blowing the primer out. Strangely his gun smith had not spotted this when he scoped it.
100 mtr, three shots touching,
Called customer to come into shop, asked about home loading he was doing, he picked his rifle up and has not been seen since, yes the customer is always right.

 

[Will the chippy]

Latest update:

Called in the shop on Saturday. Spoke with the owner who took the gun out. Showed me a pic on his phone of 5 shots he'd put through it at around 85 yards. 40 grain federal I believe.
The 'group' was shocking, about 2" or so. When I told him that was shocking, he started to explain that the 'first shot was high, so I adjusted the scope, then the second shot was' .................. Stop there I said. You weren't supposed to be zeroing it, you were supposed to be shooting a group to check for shot consistency. He didn't even take my moderator but took one from the shop!!

Some of the other things we discussed were how many different sets/brands of scopes and mounts I'd tried, different ammo, how I zeroed it etc. Off a bipod and bag, I explained.
Then questioned my shooting style and experience.

Then things got silly and I had to really bite my lip..... Grrrrrr

He asked me if I wore my reading glasses when shooting. Erm, no, they're for reading. Then told me I should!!! (What a Bell smacker)
He also told me fixed mag scopes are more accurate than scopes with a zoom.

At this point, I told him I shoot much better groups at 100yds with my CZ 17 Hmr and went back to the barrel condition. Despite my rigorous cleaning and the fact that 2 separate people at another gun shop have said it's fire cracked and worn, he's adamant it's just heavy copper fouling. With that said, I've asked if it can be scoped again and a digital recording sent to me.= to which he has agreed.


He's taking it back out sometime this week, but I think I know the answer already because he's told me 'It'll be the moderator, definitely'.


I'll let you all know how I get on.

Cheers,
Geoff.

I think we all know where this is going. It's looking as tho you have a few options.
Rebarrel
Scrap it and buy a new one.
Or as I did, ask for a trade in on a new one.
You might not want to deal with him again but if your both open to compromise then it might be your cheapest option. I lost about 200quid in the end. But I'm over the moon with my new rifle. I did a 141 variation, but as the shop was quite a way away It was cheaper to apply for another rifle, £20 so I could own 2 of the same calibre. Then when the new one was ready I handed the old one in and took the new one on the same day. And I left happy.

 

[Crowsfeet]

I am considering all options but thanks for that info.

If just like the truth about the barrel that's all

 

[palmer_mike]

If just like the truth about the barrel that's all

I have a feeling you won’t be getting that from the shop you purchased it from.

Only way to really tell is to get the rifle to a trusted 3rd party gunsmith who really knows what they are doing to inspect it and shoot it.

At the end of the day tho there’s not really much point as the shop is not ever going to admit any liability

 

[paul o']

Feller your chasing a runaway train! if it wont group its moneyback including the cost of factory ammo proving its a lemon?.
all moneys spent on this rifle this includes the rail unless you intend to get the same make again.
Under trade description it states it must be fit for purpose ( hope you have your glasses on ! ) what a crock of shat !!!!
Would you buy a car with no wheels on the promise its has very good on fuel economy ? .

(Q) Under the Consumer rights act 2015
You have the legal right to reject good that are of unsatisfactory quality ,unfit for purpose or not as described ,and get a full refund as long as you do this quickly.
this right has a 30day from when you buy the product.
If you are outside the 30 day you have to give them one chance to repair or replace any goods if they fail to repair it you have the right to claim a refund or a price reduction if all this fails you still have the right of a 100% refund . there is far more to read in the act than the above! so know your rights under the law for your next visit mty. Its best you read the act it will help .
If he offers a refund of 75% ask for the bolt action and working parts and spend the rest an a rebuild as the S/N will be on your cert and you won't need a 141 just a good gunsmith.
Do wish you well mty stick to the script you set out and if he faffs around tell him you have now force me into taking action in law. Say thankyou and walk out ! don't get bent out of shape if you do he wins!! you could even have your phone on record pre entering the shop and inform him your recording the event .

 

[enfieldspares]

Under trade description it states it must be fit for purpose ( hope you have your glasses on ! ) what a crock of shat !!!!
Would you buy a car with no wheels on the promise its has very good on fuel economy ? .

The problem is what is "fit for purpose" in terms of accuracy? That's the "nub" and I'd fear that a Court would hold that a three inch group at one hundred yards was "fit for purpose". If it does go to litigation just hope that this, below, isn't quoted:

Wiki - Accuracy with the Lee Enfield | Lee-Enfield Accurizing & .303 Accuracy Guide

A large compilation of traditional 'old school' accuracy modifications for the Lee Enfield.

www.leeenfieldresource.com

 

[Lancaster]

At the risk of being unpopular, my personal view is that the gun shop has gone way above what they are obliged to do.
You've taken it back 14 months after buying it and declared that it doesn't shoot and that you have had someone else look at it and they say the barrel is toast.
For all they know you could have been reloading 4000fps+ screamers and shooting 5 shot strings every two minutes.
Gun shop has quite reasonably agreed to look at it even though it is more than a year since you bought it from them and you hadn't gone back to report any issues since you bought it.
Subsequently you have told them what you want them to do, disagreed with how they have done it, and demanded a video of the borescope.
Why didn't you have the other people video it and show the gun shop the video?
You've checked scope and mounts, what about bedding?
I don't think naming and shaming is the answer, as far as I am concerned you are lucky that they have put themselves out to do as you have asked.

 

[Johno2486]

Feller your chasing a runaway train! if it wont group its moneyback including the cost of factory ammo proving its a lemon?.
all moneys spent on this rifle this includes the rail unless you intend to get the same make again.
Under trade description it states it must be fit for purpose ( hope you have your glasses on ! ) what a crock of shat !!!!
Would you buy a car with no wheels on the promise its has very good on fuel economy ? .

(Q) Under the Consumer rights act 2015
You have the legal right to reject good that are of unsatisfactory quality ,unfit for purpose or not as described ,and get a full refund as long as you do this quickly.
this right has a 30day from when you buy the product.
If you are outside the 30 day you have to give them one chance to repair or replace any goods if they fail to repair it you have the right to claim a refund or a price reduction if all this fails you still have the right of a 100% refund . there is far more to read in the act than the above! so know your rights under the law for your next visit mty. Its best you read the act it will help .
If he offers a refund of 75% ask for the bolt action and working parts and spend the rest an a rebuild as the S/N will be on your cert and you won't need a 141 just a good gunsmith.
Do wish you well mty stick to the script you set out and if he faffs around tell him you have now force me into taking action in law. Say thankyou and walk out ! don't get bent out of shape if you do he wins!! you could even have your phone on record pre entering the shop and inform him your recording the event .

Best of luck with that one (that's going nowhere) after 6 months has passed its up to you the buyer to prove the fault was with the item at time of purchase , 16 months have now passed, dead in the water...cut your losses, as umpteen people have said (including myself) previously , either rebarrel - sell as a project, trade it in, name and shame if you wish, but quite frankly this is now growing a beard...life's too short, get over it.

 

[Twodogs]

The problem is what is "fit for purpose" in terms of accuracy? That's the "nub" and I'd fear that a Court would hold that a three inch group at one hundred yards was "fit for purpose". If it does go to litigation just hope that this, below, isn't quoted:

Wiki - Accuracy with the Lee Enfield | Lee-Enfield Accurizing & .303 Accuracy Guide

A large compilation of traditional 'old school' accuracy modifications for the Lee Enfield.

www.leeenfieldresource.com

Fit for purpose is objective, any case would first have to define what the purpose was. For example if it was for deer then the old 4" at 100yds might be considered fit for purpose but if the purpose be rabbits at 200 yards then a different matter all together.
A question the court may ask is why has it taken so long to discover that the equipment is not fit for purpose.

 

[Hornet]

I certainly feel for you, nobody likes to be sold a lemon..... However, after over a year,I don't think you have a leg to stand on(sorry) as others have already mentioned, you "could" have been reloading super hot for the rifle ( not suggesting you have) but that would be the first obstacle, and again, what constitutes fit for purpose? A 3" group @100 yards, quite possibly, for what it's worth, if it was me, I would get it back and get a new barrel on it and enjoy many years of shooting with it, probably not what you want to hear, but personally, I think it's your best option, all the best with it.

 

[C h r i s]

I am considering all options but thanks for that info.

If just like the truth about the barrel that's all

Borescope has already told you the truth, you know its shot out. Have you asked for a refund or credit against another rifle? (Apologies if this has already been asked).

Failing that I'd push for a partial refund and put that towards a rebarrel, assuming the bolt face is tidy etc.

 

[countrryboy]

Plenty has already been said.

Must admit I'm amazed the gun shop has done as mutch as it has after so long a time has elapsed.

I don't want to say too much about the 1st bore scope, possibly they have mis diagnosed it?
I had my 223 looked at at a best practice day and it was f##ked but still seems to shoot OK.

Also I would imagine the gunshop might have took the rifle as a trade in, I doubt the original owner volunteered the fact it might have a problem.
So he might not have know about it when they sold it to u (giving them the benefit of doubt)

If your still not happy would the original gunshop buy it back?
Be a bit cheeky to sell it anywhere else.

Atleast while the gun seemed a fair price it wasnae really dear, as has been said u could put a new barrel on it and end up with a nice rifle and u know the barrel is spot on.
Plus u could get the twist rate u want to handle copper better.
So future proofing ur rifle.
Probably do u for life, so any extra u spend now while not ideal written off over 10, 15+ years is next to nothing.

U never know they might find the problem yet, if u have never tried groups with mod off or if bedding fouling or even a loose screw somewhere.
Fingers crossed it could still be a simple fix

 

[Trigger260]

I've only ever bought one second hand rifle and it was a dog. Never again! For what you save I'd rather know I've got a barrel with a full life.
If you like the rifle get a rebarrel. Once it's done you'll soon forget about this sorry experience.
Good luck

 

[HonestJohn]

I think Lothar Walther makes drop in barrels for the 75 in a sporter profile, should be under £400 to have fitted and proofed I'd imagine, if you have a friendly RFD. In fact, maybe the people who sold you the burnt out one will offer to do it for you at dealer rates as a middle ground.

 

[finnbear270]

Cannot believe this is still running, Caveat Emptor ............... shoot it same day or take the pain.

 

[HonestJohn]

Cannot believe this is still running, Caveat Emptor ............... shoot it same day or take the pain.

This will be going on in 12 years from now!

 

[jall55]

Cannot believe this is still running, Caveat Emptor ............... shoot it same day or take the pain.

Caveat emptor is no defence as a retail sale - the buyer i would imagine however will be time barred

 

[paul o']

times ticking

 

[Will the chippy]

Any news, what the latest in this saga?

 

[Crowsfeet]

Called in on Saturday and the 'haven't had time' to take the gun out again.

However, they have now said that their is a bit of burning in the first inch or two of the barrel but it 'shouldn't' affect the accuracy.

I've taken the gun back and will have it looked at and rebarreled as required.