S/H Swarovski DS1 or new Burris Eliminator??

[Donkey Basher]

Been frustrated a few times with the delay between getting 'off the gun' then pinging range with the LRF, dialling in elevation & being in a position to take the next shot before the donkey derby has cleared off so trying to work out the 'man maths' to justify the purchase of a scope that'll do it for me...

Assuming I can make the numbers work (& that's not a given), the question is should I look for a S/H DS1 (budget won't run to a DS2 I don't think) or go for new with a Burris Eliminator (or whatever they're called over here)?

Anyone got any real world experience of the Burris please? - even better been able to compare the two personally??

TIA

 

[Donkey Basher]

Well, best part of 2 months & no response so I reckon that gives me an answer wrt the Burris Eliminator.

Now to see if I can justify a DS...

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I’ve only seen a DS in the flesh, not used one, but it didn’t seem great. From memory there was a tiny grub screw that, I think, was needed to set the zero but seemed as if it’d be lost incredibly easily.

I guess a search on US forums would give you info regarding the Burris!

 

[User00040]

Now to see if I can justify a DS...

Have fun chasing your zero round and round!

They are a flawed optic from the get-go, was issued one but it shat the bed, losing zero on me several times so it landed up in a cupboard along with a few others!

Think about this, 40mm tube, 1kg in weight, it's like sticking a lead pipe onto your rifle, not to mention only 75% light transmission so the lead pipe would probably give a brighter image!

Might be fine for those who do most of their shooting out of a pickup or off the handlebars of a quad, but otherwise another expensive,duff European scope!

The DS v1 are now selling around £1.8-2k on the secondhand market, and for the reasons I have outlined above.

As for speed in ranging deer, are you stalking new ground everytime? After a few trips round a block I'm confident that I can 'eye-range' to within 30m or better when at 300m or under.

If you didn't have time to range and set up a 300m+ shot, the DS is not the answer! It can't read wind and does not account for inclines!

 

[Rural Management Services]

I have looked through a number of DS’s in daylight on the range and wasn’t exactly impressed with the image. Frankly surprised that Swarovski would put their name on something that is optically worse than a £4-500 scope.

That aside the immense size and weight of the things is something that has to be seen. I imagine it’s a 52mm objective because a 56mm would make the DS bigger than the bloody rifles they sit on.

In a non pressure situation on the range they do seem to work though from a ballistics point of view. Unless of course someone has just used factory ammo box info to program it, in which case they don’t really work. That’s user error though not the scope.

All that being said I would rather risk loosing deer shooting opportunities by using RF binos and taking extra time than owning a DS.

 

[Donkey Basher]

Thanks for these comments guys, you've convinced me that there is no real value in getting a DS - I need a scope that has good light transmission. Will stick to the Zeiss Diavari 6-24x56 & a range finder

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Are there not Sig options with an integrated scope and rangefinding binoculars?

SIG BDX and BDX Scope optics systems| SIG SAUER

Revolutionary Ballistics Data Exchange provides pre-calculated ballistics profiles based on your shooting environment and weapon configuration with the option to connect Bluetooth® systems and an easy to use app.

www.sigsauer.com

Regards
JCS

 

[Klenchblaize]

Glad I kept my Leica RF 1200 Scan rather than sell for peanuts.

K

 

[Donkey Basher]

Glad I kept my Leica RF 1200 Scan rather than sell for peanuts.

K

Still got my LRF800 that I got from Rick many years ago

 

[long_range_rob]

I’ve used the DS1. Fantastic bit of technology but heavy and cumbersome.

 

[scotch_egg]

My personal thoughts on the subject. If it’s taking too long to transition from glassing with binoculars to getting behind the rifle and dialing in a shot before the intended target has moved position I would have to question the movement of the target in the bullet flight time and it being an ethical shot.

I suppose having rangefinding binoculars does help, rather than a separate range finder.

A printed data sheet rather than relying on opening an application on a phone or Kestrel will also save time.

Wind reading also comes into play at extended ranges. Something that I have come across recently is applying an MPH to your rifle. This is covered in Frank Galli’s book.
Amazon product ASIN 1951115104

 

[User00040]

Shame is that Swarovski's design team is stuck with a 1970's-80's philosophy. Their X5i scopes are equally dissapointing!

2nd focal plane ret when it should have been 1st focal plane.

Terrible '4a' type reticle that was only ever meant to work on fixed power scopes, not modern variables.

If you wanted to make a 100% reliable, rangefinding scope, you should do away with turrets moving an erector!

Develop electric switchable glass that projects a reticle onto the eyepiece, allowing the user to input their rifle parameters and generate an FFP reticle with BDC type elevation and wind holds already intergrated. Then add the pre-existing aim point that the dS generates.

Rifle is zeroed via app that controls where the 'reticle' sits.

Eliminate pushing a button to range the target, instead have a system that provides an immediate 'lock on' to the object in the centre of the reticle, and tracks it's movement and ranges correspondingly, like a 'scan' function.

Combine with bluetooth Kestrel connectivity and you have a winner!

Vortex of all brands is already ahead of Swaro's line of thinking:

 

[Klenchblaize]

Shame is that Swarovski's design team is stuck with a 1970's-80's philosophy. Their X5i scopes are equally dissapointing!

2nd focal plane ret when it should have been 1st focal plane.

Terrible '4a' type reticle that was only ever meant to work on fixed power scopes, not modern variables.

If you wanted to make a 100% reliable, rangefinding scope, you should do away with turrets moving an erector!

Develop electric switchable glass that projects a reticle onto the eyepiece, allowing the user to input their rifle parameters and generate an FFP reticle with BDC type elevation and wind holds already intergrated. Then add the pre-existing aim point that the dS generates.

Rifle is zeroed via app that controls where the 'reticle' sits.

Eliminate pushing a button to range the target, instead have a system that provides an immediate 'lock on' to the object in the centre of the reticle, and tracks it's movement and ranges correspondingly, like a 'scan' function.

Combine with bluetooth Kestrel connectivity and you have a winner!

Vortex of all brands is already ahead of Swaro's line of thinking:

But would such a scope be compatible with a set of vintage Sako roll off mounts/rings?

K

 

[scotch_egg]

I’m going to be controversial here. There is nothing wrong with second focal plane in a hunting scope.

First focal plane is the current fad. Where the reticle becomes pretty useless as lower magnification and the stadia almost impossible to see at the low end of the mag range anyway.

As long as the turrets match the reticle subtensions either works. Long range shots are taken at higher magnification where the second focal plane scopes reticles are where the stadia will measure true, so wind holds can be accurately made and called for example.

The real issue with adding tech to anything is it will be outdated in a couple of years. Where as my 4-16X50 Schmidt PM2 is simple and is what many companies are still striving to imitate. Reticle matches the turrets, turrets are single turn and aren’t vernier so they down move up and down. Just a shame it’s so bloody big.

 

[NullMac]

I have a Gen2 and a mate has a Gen 1. As @caberslash says there are issues around holding zero. Mine had a trip home and is now fine, my mates has been good from the outset.

You must set it up correctly if you are to get the benefit which means chrony rounds, data on the side of the box is not good enough, and I suppose have a decent stab at the bc although at stalking ranges that's not critical. If the ammo isn't 1 moa as an absolute max, it is debatable if it is worth it.

If you are culling hinds it is a useful bit of kit and maybe gets a couple more in the argo per day. Otherwise I would not bother, a lrf and a dialing scope will do the job. It is handy to be in the rifle all the time and range things, certainly faster/more accurate on second and third shots. On a straight pull it is a very efficient combo.

I do like the wind bars and the ability to set them up in mph or m/s mean there is no conversion to mils or moa, so it is much more intuitive as I am thinking about wind as I go anyway. If its not windy then this isn't one for you I would suggest.

Is the glass worse than other Swaro? Well it must be as there is stuff in the optical path. Personally I haven't noticed a practical issue. I have never missed a shooting opportunity 'cos the scope is too dark and most of my non-Red stalking is Sika who are notorious last lighters. For clarity tarts, this isn't one for you either.

 

[DavyG]

Been frustrated a few times with the delay between getting 'off the gun' then pinging range with the LRF, dialling in elevation & being in a position to take the next shot before the donkey derby has cleared off so trying to work out the 'man maths' to justify the purchase of a scope that'll do it for me...

Assuming I can make the numbers work (& that's not a given), the question is should I look for a S/H DS1 (budget won't run to a DS2 I don't think) or go for new with a Burris Eliminator (or whatever they're called over here)?

Anyone got any real world experience of the Burris please? - even better been able to compare the two personally??

TIA

DS…just more buttons to press. I have and carry a range finder. It usually comes out to see how far the deer was before it was shot.
DG

 

[243ack]

I've owned a DS1 since they first came out. Apart from the physical size, I've no complaints at all. It's been spot on from the outset. The ballistic calculator is absolutely spot on - but it's up to the operator to put in the correct data. Crap in, crap out. I think this is a lot of the 'trouble' reported by some users. Twilight performance, at lower mags, is fine.
'Just more buttons to push' - pish: there's only one.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I've been using a digital alternative for the last few months. The Pard DS35 70 LRF. The rangefinder is built-in and on confirming the range, the display immediately shows the hold over/under required for the range. You also get great low-light/nighttime performance. It looks daft, and won't work without batteries, but it makes trajectory compensation automatic and the extra speed is really paying dividends when tacking rats, squirrels, etc with the airgun. I'm sure it would work well on something full-bore, too; but the nature of my ground makes seeing a deer more than 150m away the exception, not the rule, so it's basically just point-and-shoot on that score and all I need is decent glass.

 

[viking90]

Have you thought about buying a scope with a stadiametric range finder? Or if your mental arithmetic is good you could use your mil dots assuming you have a decent reticle. The range finder in my scope only works with 1.7m tall targets unfortunately as that was average bloke height back in the day. If I'm waiting and overlooking places I'm expecting to see deer I tend to just ping them with the laser and make a mental note which seems alot easier

 

[wytonpjs]

I've owned a DS1 since they first came out. Apart from the physical size, I've no complaints at all. It's been spot on from the outset. The ballistic calculator is absolutely spot on - but it's up to the operator to put in the correct data. Crap in, crap out. I think this is a lot of the 'trouble' reported by some users. Twilight performance, at lower mags, is fine.
'Just more buttons to push' - pish: there's only one.

Same here - got one when they first came out and never had a problem with it loosing zero or anything else. I wish it was lighter but it simply works well for me and has been the ace in the hole on some quick reaction shots at range where time was of the essence. Whilst it’s heavy, and to incense @caberslash even more , it’s mounted on my .308 Sako S20 WITH a F&D FW 169 , I have used it on every one of the 10 weeks I have done the BASC Arran scheme to great effect. I use a lightweight .308 with a Z6i when I’m out with a trainee or doing an AW stalk but for demanding shooting, it’s my go to. On my last Arran trip my shooting partner had a Swaro Z8i on his R8 - I held him neck and neck in shootable last light stakes!