He is doing his own research - by asking on here.
What would you rather? People didn’t ask anything you couldn’t otherwise Google elsewhere, and then what does this site become?
England vs Scotland Deer Act.
- Thread starter griff
- Start date
What would you rather? People didn’t ask anything you couldn’t otherwise Google elsewhere, and then what does this site become?
I'd expect people who shoot deer to have an idea of what is, or isn't legal, on both sides of the border, rather than relying on an internet forum, Jeez, it isn't that difficult.
God knows how we managed to stay vaguely legal before t'Internet was the primary source of information, yes it makes it easier, but just asking folk on a forum, IMHO, it's lazy.
If the OP had stated "I've looked at all sorts of information in t'internet, but I'm still confused, can you help?", fair enough, but "Does anyone know the what the differences are between England & Scotland in the Deer Act.", C'mon
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Going back to the question of 22centerfire and Roe on different sides of the Border, a lot of Scottish Roe Deer, especially those away from good agricultural land are really quite a bit smaller than Roe deer down on good Southern England farmland. I have not shot any Roe in Oxfordshire/ Wiltshire but the fully grown bucks I have seen are substantially bigger than any bucks we get up here. And Reds I have seen in Cannock Chase, Suffolk, Richmond or New Forest are lot bigger than most Reds we get up here.
And when the Deer Acts were drafted there were very few Roe Deer in Southern England - it was mostly Fallow with a few Red Deer.
I suspect the legislators were dictated by the deer that they were familiar with. So MPs in Westminster would be referencing fallow and red deer and the .240 and 243 etc. were pretty much the norm for what was used on the farms and estates that they were familiar with.
Where as up in Scotland the .222 was a popular rifle for use in Roe and it worked well. And whilst in the right hands it works it’s probably marginal for hill Red deer, hence the .243 min.
And when the Deer Acts were drafted there were very few Roe Deer in Southern England - it was mostly Fallow with a few Red Deer.
I suspect the legislators were dictated by the deer that they were familiar with. So MPs in Westminster would be referencing fallow and red deer and the .240 and 243 etc. were pretty much the norm for what was used on the farms and estates that they were familiar with.
Where as up in Scotland the .222 was a popular rifle for use in Roe and it worked well. And whilst in the right hands it works it’s probably marginal for hill Red deer, hence the .243 min.
I reckon Griff was just starting a discussion to see what you lot know, Griff probably has more deer experience and knowledge than most on here.
Morkai
Well-Known Member
Different seasons - fine no biggie, just look them up depending on the day.
The one I really don’t get is .22 CF for roe. I’d love to use my .222 as a light weight summer gun as it’s perfect for roe and munty, but unfortunately I can’t
And the fps limit which counts out your 45-70...
That one is dumb.
Morkai
Well-Known Member
Yeah that one stops me using it in Scotland but not in England
Weird isnt it, the energy is up to the job, scrap the fps min limit.
Not being lazy, I have studied both sets of legislation and wanted to see if there was anything I had missed. I know that most on here will come up with something that none of us would of thought of.. I don't normally venture south of the border, but there is an opportunity for a contract in England, hence the question.
I dont understand the velocity requirement in Scotland, and I dont understand the disallowance of .22 CF in England on roe TBH.
Its not like .45-70 wouldn't kill them north of the border when it kills deer just fine south of it, and its not like roe become .22 caliber bullet proof when you're south of Carlisle either for Pete's sake.. But hey that's the law so I will follow it of course.
I would personally say that the .22/1000ftlb limit is more than enough for roe and I actually reckon .22 hornet would be enough for munty and CWD (especially if you put a 40gn minimum bullet weight in there) - it kills foxes quick enough and they're about the same size. And then .240/1750ftlb for anything larger.
JMHO and all that.
Or we just stop quibbling and insist on .375 H&H for everything - call it a day like.
Sika, without a shadow of doubt.
Scottish or English ones
Wee fookin Glasgae wan's.
When people ask me for help, and I can help, I like to help. I can't always help, but, whether I can help or not, it would never occur to me to tell them they ought not to ask. But each to their own.
Aye, certainly wouldnae want a Glasgae kiss af a wan
Although - it could be potentially resolved with a Legislative Reform Order, where one changes the administration of an Act and not it's purpose, so allowing .22CF for instance
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Not sure that is entirely fair (and I think you have acknowledged this).
I think folk (and I include myself in this) sometimes ask questions on here to:-
Check thinking.
Tap into the 'Hive' synergy.
Provoke interaction, discourse and even humour.
I often think that is one of the reasons why the "Search' function is perhaps not used as much as it could be (although that is {outside of Admin. and the Chinese Secret Service} unknowable) for the 'rank and file'.
Not everyone who goes to the library, goes to read .
Some go for the company, and some just go to keep warm - the internet is not so very different.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Very glad that SD is only really British Isles centric where as regards Firearms legislation we only have three variations with Northern Ireland, Scotland and England / Wales.
Imagine what it would be like if this was US Centric where you 52 States each with their own legislation, then Federal Law and the individual counties and regional variations with states.
In some places you can 22lr to shoot everything as its a straight wall cartridge, along 45-70, in others you cannot, shotguns only, shotguns prohibited, no pistol grips, full on semi auto allowed etc etc
Imagine what it would be like if this was US Centric where you 52 States each with their own legislation, then Federal Law and the individual counties and regional variations with states.
In some places you can 22lr to shoot everything as its a straight wall cartridge, along 45-70, in others you cannot, shotguns only, shotguns prohibited, no pistol grips, full on semi auto allowed etc etc
Because when Muntjac and CWD came off people in England argued the case that you needed at least a 243 win to shoot an English or Welsh Roe Deer . Funny enough i have just had a call a few mins ago from a Scottish Based head stalker who is right now legally using 80 grain 243 win on Reds. Its obvious is it not ? LOL
Did you know more nations and states worldwide allow 223 rem for all deer ? ( a good few have larger deer than we do here btw) .
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