The costs of appeals

New Avon Arms
I can't help but think that a bit of civillity and a few cups of tea may have prevented alot of this.
 
BH, Do you really expect anybody to believe that the police who attended your house stolen money and property, assaulted you by striking your wrist of a steel railing or was it your head of concrete, acted like thugs and your legal advice has been not to make a complaint. There is no solicitor that would give that advise unless they considered that the complaint was totally fabricated, without foundation and could place doubt on your character.
You have never fully explained the reason the Police revoked your licenses but having done so they have attended at your home address where they find you in Breach of a Firearms Certificate condition which you later plead guilty to. I have no doubt going by your writings on this forum that during the process of the removal of your firearms you did not peacefully accept the situation and your conduct most likely would be classed as obstruction.
Do you have basis for an appeal against your licences being revoked? Does your legal representative consider that you have a good chance of success? I believe you are a member of NGO, what is their advise, can they assist with legal representation/costs. Why not ask to have a meeting with the Chief Constable but probably in your mind he will be corrupt and will probably dip your wallet.
Instead of bleating your anti Police drivel on here why not do something positive regarding your situation or perhaps having sought legal advice you have been informed that you have no chance of appeal and the only audience you have left is this forum.
 
Gazza the licence was revoked because my Nephew visits the property during the day. Before this was not a problem but suddenly it became a problem for the Police and no we have no idea as to why they changed their minds on this the time before when this certain WPC had an issue with it a phone call to Firearms Licensing sorted it out however I wa snot allowed to make a phone call this time. asking and then demanding to make one resulted in the assault upon my person.

The facts remain there is a now empty OXO tin on top of the gun cabinet. Before their visit it had £50 cash in it which was towards a Stalk booked two weeks later. The facts remain that I have not been allowed to inspect my property being held at a RFD's for damage etc. We are still awaiting the answers as to why the Police took wooden stocks, cast lead bullets, virtually all my empty brass cases, two rifle scopes not fitted to guns, a Zeiss Dialal 4x32 in AKAH case and a Pecar 3-7x35 that was boxed up to go for re-furb (they left the box just took the scope) yet other scopes such as:-

Zeiss Jena ZF6/S
Khales 4L2
Tasco Titan 3-9x42
Unbranded 6x42
Hensoldt Duralyte 4x
Weaver K1.5
Nikkos Sterling 4x40 Electro-Sight
Lisenfeld 3-9x42 spezial
ASI 4x32 Super Scope
Nikko Sterlin Special/Special Sporting 4x32 ( three off)
Parker-Hale 3-9x40 (New acquired from a photographer who did the P-H catalogues)
Rhino 4x40

One has to wonder why just the Pecar and cased Zeiss scope were taken :suss:

One also wonders why such things as spare stock set for BSA Martini model 12/15, an unfinished P-H M82 stock, complete new wood set for a No4 Enfield, No4 Enfield butts, an incomplete non functional .577 Snider sporting carbine (antique requires no licence) BSA Model D stock my Recurve bow in it's case with arrows, sights spare string etc, the air rifles and air guns including Dad's 1934 vintage Hanael Model 15 Tin plate smooth bore. Also when looking through my dies it seems the 7.5 Swiss and 8x56 Hungarian ones are missing :eek: Of course according to the replies I get here I must be mistaken :roll: and everything must be still here just in another plain of reality?


As for obstruction oh yes to ask for an explaination for the Police attendance, to ask to make a phone call for advice, to ask for proper identification, to make a phone call to get the very RFD they are now stored with out to collect them, well yes according to the Police that is obstruction although the charges were dropped.

It has become obvious that in the eyes of some members of the SD that the Police can do no wrong. As for drivel :roll: what I have posted happened but for some reason in your little safe cocooned world it cannot be so I must be making it up. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee as our Americans friends would say.

As for reasons for revocation I am still wondering what the reason was myself after all less than a week before the renewal inspection visit it was all fine then this :suss:.

Ahhh mudman,

I can't help but think that a bit of civillity and a few cups of tea may have prevented alot of this.
Click to expand...

Once upon a time I thought that way even to extending things to nice cake however as it made no difference to their attitude it was decided that it was a wasted effort on our part manners and trying talking to them has not worked and believe me we have tried for over 6 years since moving back into this county. Looking back it might have been easier to get my parents to move out of the county.
 
Bh, I believe that the Breach of FAC Conditions that you plead guilty to was failing to have your firearms properly secured so as they could not be accessed by a non authorised person. The location of this breach would appear to have been within your home, the same home that your nephew who is out on bail frequents. If this is the basis for the Police revoking your FAC/SGC I cannot see an argument against the action taken. It must also be considered that information as regards anyone's suitability to possess firearms can come from many sources. The immediate response by the Police will always be to remove firearms first and then talk about it. Your cooperation in these matters can only be to you good.
The Police must be able to go about their lawful duty and your interference on the day was obviously seen as obstruction. I have no idea as to why any charges dropped but this must be to your advantage that they were.
As regards what was taken by the Police I would expect a full explanation from them and would request this explanation through your solicitor. He can also request an answer as to why your certificates were revoked. He will do so officially and will know how to expedite this request.
I am not going to say that I have never known Police Officers to steal but these rogues within the Service are few and far between. Any complaint of an Officer or Officers being dishonest would be taken very seriously indeed and if you totally believe that a Police Officer stole your cash or any other property I would urge you to make a formal complaint. The Police Service does not need dishonest criminals within it's ranks.
As said get off the keyboard with your anti Police agenda and do something positive as regards your situation.
 
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Taff said:
Reading your posts you lost your license for breech of firearms law, there is no such thing as a minor breech, gun left out when a full scale raid is taking place is not a good idea.
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Not a good idea but not illegal... what about the recent case where someone was shooting out of an upstairs window using his fathers rifle? The case was dropped because father was in the house at the time.
 
Si it is a breech if you are not in control of the weapon or it is not secured, a car is classified as secured if it is locked, having a gun behind the door etc in your house for some reason is not, why do you think they make you buy a cabinet, it's because there are other people in the house who don,t have a fac
Where did this case of the son shooting out of his upstairs window take place. Why were the police called, who witnessed it.more info please.
 
Si said:
Not a good idea but not illegal... what about the recent case where someone was shooting out of an upstairs window using his fathers rifle? The case was dropped because father was in the house at the time.
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Difference in this case from BH's position is that the Father knew who had the rifle and the case was argued as per the reports (almost like borrowing an estate rifle.)
It would appear that BH left his firearm unattended albeit in his home. Problems were that his out on bail nephew frequented his home but mostly that instead of pleading not guilty and explaining how the firearm came to be there (momentarily disturbed whilst cleaning/maintenance etc) and hoping that the judge would agree, BH plead guilty, was fined and now has a conviction in relation to a Firearm Certificate Condition.
 
Wg thanks for that, so as it stands if bh had pleaded not guilty and said his dad was in charge of the gun he would have been ok. He made a big mistake by the sound of it. I was always led to believe that you had to be present with the person who owned the gun. It looks like BASC have set a piece of case law.
 
I have followed this with interest for some time and get the feeling that BH has been to say the least economical with the truth or is at best putting his slant on the events.
If the incident occurred in April why open it to discussion in October ? First it was a wrist injury then a head injury .
Where were his parents when this assault took place .
Does he really expect us to believe that a police officer would put in jeopardy his career and pension for £50 !!!
Surely he should realize that the vast majority of police officers have little knowledge of firearms and as such are likely to seize anything firearms related.
This story about phoning an RFD whats that all about ? If the police are intent on seizing your firearms then they are not going to let you make a phone call regarding this nor should they .
I am curious as to why BH stresses that the firearm which was not stored correctly at the time of the police visit was out of sight surely if he was working on it when the police rang the bell it would be in plain view.If my nephew was going to cause me problems with the firearms dept he would be told and I'm sure would agree not to visit.
If the police have grounds to be concerned with regard to the nephews possible access to firearms then I would imagine that the offense that he is on bail for is a serious one and we would be the first to jump on them if he gained access to them and committed a further offense.
If all that BH says is correct get yourself a new lawyer and if you are as skint as you clain sell some of your gear and take them on !!!1
 
One lesson to be learnt from this is the importance of closely complying with firearms security conditions, a bit unusual for the police to turn up mob handed to seize the guns though. They must have had some serious concern.
 
if your FAC cert is revoked can you go stalking useing an estate rifle and shoot clays at a club and participate in a days walked up grouse my previous employer had a close relative that lost his certs and he seem to do a fair amount of shooting
 
The reason the police came to the house was because BHs nephew was recently released from prison, this I believe was explained by BH himself, if I'm incorrect I will apologies but from memory I believe this was an issue in the case. This thread has gone on and on and changed events and some of the original content has been lost, what hasn't been lost is the constant and bitter accusations thrown at the police, only they and BH know what happened that day, and in the light of recent events involving firearms where they not right to remove unlocked firearms etc from a property recently visited by convicted person recently released from prison. Again if I am incorrect on the nephews status I will remove and apologies formy post. I value my right, approved by the police, to own and use all my firearms and shotguns, and as such would have made sure if I were in BHs position, that there were no unlocked firearms around at any time, and ensured that the police were aware that any visits from family members such as his nephew were strictly supervised. What crime did he commite to warrent a prison sentince, if it was of a aggrivated nature involving violence then who's to blame for the revocation of his certificate. As previously said by others I'm sure this directory is monitored, and it would be easy for the police to put two and two together and as such, I would think his FAC will never be returned, best to let this lie now its going nowhere other than downhill. deerwarden.:old:
 
Hi, I might be a bit late on this one, but have you heard of Mick Sheppard? I believe he might be of interest to you regarding your "problem". I believe he had a similar issue. He welcomes calls from people in your situation - visit his website - micksguns.com
 
Thamk you I should have remembered that one as I used to shoot alongside Mick at the BSPC at Bisley. It makes my heart sink.......................... 4 years and still his property is not returned ......now I know the game this lot are playing ... I will contact Mick .
 
mullbiker said:
I have followed this with interest for some time and get the feeling that BH has been to say the least economical with the truth or is at best putting his slant on the events.
If the incident occurred in April why open it to discussion in October ? First it was a wrist injury then a head injury .
Where were his parents when this assault took place .
Does he really expect us to believe that a police officer would put in jeopardy his career and pension for £50 !!!
Surely he should realize that the vast majority of police officers have little knowledge of firearms and as such are likely to seize anything firearms related.
This story about phoning an RFD whats that all about ? If the police are intent on seizing your firearms then they are not going to let you make a phone call regarding this nor should they .
I am curious as to why BH stresses that the firearm which was not stored correctly at the time of the police visit was out of sight surely if he was working on it when the police rang the bell it would be in plain view.If my nephew was going to cause me problems with the firearms dept he would be told and I'm sure would agree not to visit.
If the police have grounds to be concerned with regard to the nephews possible access to firearms then I would imagine that the offense that he is on bail for is a serious one and we would be the first to jump on them if he gained access to them and committed a further offense.
If all that BH says is correct get yourself a new lawyer and if you are as skint as you clain sell some of your gear and take them on !!!1
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May I suggest you look back in the forums I posted what had happened back in April. Now perhaps you could rise the required £6,000-£20,000 we cannot and believe me we have tried hard to come up with it. However we must face facts the case against me is heavily biased and the officers well rehearsed in their evidence so it will al sound similar even if it's a load of codswallop. As for my parents, dad was sitting in his chair. He needs assistance to get out and mother was not allowed out of the door by the 6 or so officers.

If I could raise the required funds we feel it would be better spent vacating this god forsaken Police state. Hopefully the specialist at the hospital will have some good news on December 19th to impart to me. Perhaps the eye problem is caused by something else and not by having that side of my head thrust into the concrete.

As this is my parents house and I am just here to help care for them I cannot stop my nephew visiting and seeing as how my nephew has not been convicted of anything despite 2 years of investigation the police have still not given any evidence to his solicitors no one but the police can see a problem with my collection and hobby.

As for the phone call to the RFD well that was because I knew dmned well that the police would cause damage to my firearms. Their idea of safe secure transportation was to pile the guns one on top of the other like cord wood in the boot of a Skoda. They had no way of protecting them and frankly they don't give two hoots what the break. That was one of the things which upset mother the most their callous disregard for anything. When something was damaged or broken their reaction was to all hoot with laughter and start slapping one another on the back in congratulations.

Now should we manage to find funds to act on this we have to weigh the costs as even in winning we lose as the Police almost never get costs awarded against them the whole system is biased and they know it. So gee wow we won but not have no money to pay the bills let alone replace what we had to sell.. Exactly how is that winning?
 
timbrayford said:
One lesson to be learnt from this is the importance of closely complying with firearms security conditions, a bit unusual for the police to turn up mob handed to seize the guns though. They must have had some serious concern.
Click to expand...

Not unusual it seems for this shower. I recently heard of an RFD storing chaps guns. The police called him in to collect his "crime" was that whilst he was away on a business trip his wife executed a well laid plan, three months of planning was put into effect and she took her own life. No guns were used and she did not have access to them it seems. But plod didn't care they turned up mob handed and pushed their way in and took everything. The wife was is decline with a terminal illness the husband knew nothing of her plans so carefully were they laid but she carefully put all her affairs in order and waited until he was away.

Now exactly what has he done wrong?

Now a certain WPC dealing with the nephews case tried to get my licences pulled over a year ago and it was sorted out. It appears this is just part of her game plan.

As for security conditions I suggest you read yours most carefully as the Police can interpret them any way they want it seems to suit their wishes at the time.
 
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