Powder and primers in outbuildings?

[Lofty.308]

Hi All,

I have a small garden room, (sheathed, insulated, plastboarded construction), built under permitted development. It has five point locking doors and windows, very solid, and an alarm. Will likely install cameras soon also. Security wise, it's no easier to break into than my own house.

I intend to reload in the garden room, but obviously no completed rounds would be kept in it, they'd be in the safe in the house.

My question is, could I legally store powder and primers out there, or would they have to be inside my residence?

Any thoughts or opinions?

Cheers!

 

[User00040]

Hi All,

I have a small garden room, (sheathed, insulated, plastboarded construction), built under permitted development. It has five point locking doors and windows, very solid, and an alarm. Will likely install cameras soon also. Security wise, it's no easier to break into than my own house.

I intend to reload in the garden room, but obviously no completed rounds would be kept in it, they'd be in the safe in the house.

My question is, could I legally store powder and primers out there, or would they have to be inside my residence?

Any thoughts or opinions?

Cheers!

Perfectly legal, only comment would be consider adding a dehumidifier if you don't already have one.

 

[Heym SR20]

I would definitely keep primers under lock and key in the ammo cabinet as well as in the wrong hands, primers are the key to making ammunition. Without primers brass, bullets and powder are pretty much useless.

Not sure if I would want to have to explain to Police why 1,000 primers have been stolen from my property. Different matter if police approved ammo safe has been broken into.

And can reloading components / equipment easily be seen from the windows?

Given that there are plenty of films featuring snipers sitting at their loading bench making ammunition, I suspect there are plenty within the criminal fraternity that would recognise what is in there.

Personally if it was me, I would have the set up in the shed by all means, but would have reloading presses etc mounted so that they are easily moved and can be put away in a cupboard out of sight. Ditto for all the powder etc.

 

[kes]

I keep mine in a barn - watertight box, not obvious and locked at all times unless moving equipment out/in.

 

[reiver]

I just keep mine on the shelf next to the powder not a good idea to lock 1000 primers up in a steel cabinet just makes a big bomb if there’s a fire ! Primer s are more recactive than powder .

 

[timbrayford]

I would definitely keep primers under lock and key in the ammo cabinet as well as in the wrong hands, primers are the key to making ammunition. Without primers brass, bullets and powder are pretty much useless.

Not sure if I would want to have to explain to Police why 1,000 primers have been stolen from my property. Different matter if police approved ammo safe has been broken into.

And can reloading components / equipment easily be seen from the windows?

Given that there are plenty of films featuring snipers sitting at their loading bench making ammunition, I suspect there are plenty within the criminal fraternity that would recognise what is in there.

Personally if it was me, I would have the set up in the shed by all means, but would have reloading presses etc mounted so that they are easily moved and can be put away in a cupboard out of sight. Ditto for all the powder etc.

Its a puzzle why people add clauses to the Firearms Act that don't in reality exist?

 

[Heym SR20]

Its a puzzle why people add clauses to the Firearms Act that don't in reality exist?

You might want to consult section 2.46 to 2.48 of the Firearms Security Handbook 2020 in the section covering ammunition where it recommends that all reloading components should be kept in a secure and safe place.

I appreciate it is a recommendation not a legal requirement, and it is up to the individual whether to follow recommendations or not.

 

[cjm1066]

Isn't inside a house a safe and secure place?

 

[timbrayford]

You might want to consult section 2.46 to 2.48 of the Firearms Security Handbook 2020 in the section covering ammunition where it recommends that all reloading components should be kept in a secure and safe place.

I appreciate it is a recommendation not a legal requirement, and it is up to the individual whether to follow recommendations or not.

Precisely, its not a legal requirement. No explanation to the police if you get burgled is required, quite the opposite in fact, you should request an explanation from them why they have been so ineffective at combating crime in the area.

 

[Heym SR20]

Precisely, its not a legal requirement. No explanation to the police if you get burgled is required, quite the opposite in fact, you should request an explanation from them why they have been so ineffective at combating crime in the area.

I can foresee a news item along the following lines:

So following the newspaper headlines where a licensed rifle shooter, Mr Timbrayford, had 2,000 primers, cases, bullets, powder along with reloading equipment to make ammunition for high velocity rifles stolen from his garden shed, questions are being asked in Parliament how such items so easily fall into the hands of the criminal fraternity. Questions are now being asked as to why shooters are allowed to possess such quantities and not keep them secure.

Chief Inspector Plod has announced an immediate review on the suitability of all FAC holders and their security arrangements. He has also stated that all FAC holders will have additional conditions mandating that all components of ammunition be kept securely, and he is recommending to the Home Office that this becomes mandatory for all firearms holders. In the meantime the force is putting all its resources into recovering these items and are following several leads. Mr Timbrayford is helping with these enquiries.

 

[User00040]

Isn't inside a house a safe and secure place?

Yes, unless you live in Gangland.

I can foresee a news item along the following lines:

So following the newspaper headlines where a licensed rifle shooter, Mr Timbrayford, had 2,000 primers, cases, bullets, powder along with reloading equipment to make ammunition for high velocity rifles stolen from his garden shed, questions are being asked in Parliament how such items so easily fall into the hands of the criminal fraternity. Questions are now being asked as to why shooters are allowed to possess such quantities and not keep them secure.

Chief Inspector Plod has announced an immediate review on the suitability of all FAC holders and their security arrangements. He has also stated that all FAC holders will have additional conditions mandating that all components of ammunition be kept securely, and he is recommending to the Home Office that this becomes mandatory for all firearms holders. In the meantime the force is putting all its resources into recovering these items and are following several leads. Mr Timbrayford is helping with these enquiries.

Thankfully, it turns out that Mr. Pearl Clutcher (@Heym SR20 ) just enjoys projecting his insecurities (whether it be that of his abode, or otherwise) onto others.

 

[Heym SR20]

Yes, unless you live in Gangland.



Thankfully, it turns out that Mr. Pearl Clutcher (@Heym SR20 ) just enjoys projecting his insecurities (whether it be that of his abode, or otherwise) onto others.

Don’t worry, no insecurities here. I have spent a lot of my career doing due diligence on companies and their management team, identifying potential traps and pitfalls for the company to avoid. They often state that it will never happen, ignore the advice and greed takes over. Two or three years later, what I suggested happens and the company goes bankrupt.

 

[Liveonce]

Hi All,

I have a small garden room, (sheathed, insulated, plastboarded construction), built under permitted development. It has five point locking doors and windows, very solid, and an alarm. Will likely install cameras soon also. Security wise, it's no easier to break into than my own house.

I intend to reload in the garden room, but obviously no completed rounds would be kept in it, they'd be in the safe in the house.

My question is, could I legally store powder and primers out there, or would they have to be inside my residence?

Any thoughts or opinions?

Cheers!

i keep powder in an outbuilding constructed of timber, insulated and plaster boarded, my man cave, it has cctv inside and outside plus an alarm and the FEO has never raised an issue with it. Has a dehumidifier and heating.
Primers and bullets are in a brattonsound locked ammunition cabinet and powder in a wooden chest/box padlocked.
Just a few of kg of powder and a few thousand primers as only load for .223 and .17hornet.
The alarm is a separate zone to the house and can be on even when we are at home. inside cctv sends notification to my smartphone. I do not keep firearms or ammunition in it.

 

[Eddie P]

Legally, everyone has covered it.

I like self adhesive frosting film for windows to stop people looking in.

But I wouldn't, I'd be concerned about humidity, especially the primers in a card slip and not a sealed bottle like the powder. I'd just put them in a box that I store in the house and can easily move back and forth.

 

[timbrayford]

I can foresee a news item along the following lines:

So following the newspaper headlines where a licensed rifle shooter, Mr Timbrayford, had 2,000 primers, cases, bullets, powder along with reloading equipment to make ammunition for high velocity rifles stolen from his garden shed, questions are being asked in Parliament how such items so easily fall into the hands of the criminal fraternity. Questions are now being asked as to why shooters are allowed to possess such quantities and not keep them secure.

Chief Inspector Plod has announced an immediate review on the suitability of all FAC holders and their security arrangements. He has also stated that all FAC holders will have additional conditions mandating that all components of ammunition be kept securely, and he is recommending to the Home Office that this becomes mandatory for all firearms holders. In the meantime the force is putting all its resources into recovering these items and are following several leads. Mr Timbrayford is helping with these enquiries.

Funny that you should say that, what actually happened was that I suffered from no criticism or repercussions whatsoever.

Despite being 32 years of age & having 29 previous convictions the career burglar only got sent on a thinking course, the local police, CPS & MoJ got the benefit of my opinion which in due course I reiterated on radio 4 on a programme on the soft sentencing of crooks. Subsequent to this the individual concerned got caught red-handed breaking into a safe and sent to prison!

I just wish that some members of the shooting community, would grow a pair and stand up up for themselves!

 

[Heym SR20]

Funny that you should say that, what actually happened was that I suffered from no criticism or repercussions whatsoever.

Despite being 32 years of age & having 29 previous convictions the career burglar only got sent on a thinking course, the local police, CPS & MoJ got the benefit of my opinion which in due course I reiterated on radio 4 on a programme on the soft sentencing of crooks. Subsequent to this the individual concerned got caught red-handed breaking into a safe and sent to prison!

I just wish that some members of the shooting community, would grow a pair and stand up up for themselves!

I trust that in your interviews with Radio 4 that the criminal concerned was in fact in breech of Firearms Act on the basis of procuring components and equipment to make ammunition and thus have been subject to a good stretch inside.

And I suspect you also vented your frustration at why the Police Constable has not yet returned your firearms and you are still awaiting the results of a review into your FAC, given that you had not followed Home Office recommendations, and your solicitors have so far cost you several thousand pounds.

 

[Liveonce]

The firearms act is not the only law regarding possession of explosive articles that is also covered within the HSE explosive regulations ER2014. The firearms act is concerned with controlling complete rounds of ammunition, ER2014 deals with manufacture, storage, transfer, of any explosive articles like shooters powder, ammunition, pyrotechnics etc.

 

[Lever357]

I wish people would stop saying they store primers in a gun-safe/ammo-safe/locked metal box. They are the most volatile, explosive item we deal with and by putting them in a locked metal container you have just made a bomb.

 

[Liveonce]

I wish people would stop saying they store primers in a gun-safe/ammo-safe/locked metal box. They are the most volatile, explosive item we deal with and by putting them in a locked metal container you have just made a bomb.

not if stored in their original manufactured supplied packaging which is tested to confirm they cannot all simultaneously detonate otherwise they would not be classified as 1.4s

plus for even one to ignite it needs a stimulus to do so, for forty plus years i have stored, primers in a large metal ammo cabinet and yet to have a bomb. I would worry more about the petrol in your shed for your lawn mower or in your car.

 

[Heym SR20]

The firearms act is not the only law regarding possession of explosive articles that is also covered within the HSE explosive regulations ER2014. The firearms act is concerned with controlling complete rounds of ammunition, ER2014 deals with manufacture, storage, transfer, of any explosive articles like shooters powder, ammunition, pyrotechnics etc.

The firearms act is also about preventing unauthorised persons from procuring ammunition by whatever means. It could be argued that allowing / enabling an unauthorised individual gaining the requisite components and equipment to manufacture ammunition is in effect allowing or enabling that individual to procure loaded ammunition.

And whilst we all think that reloading ammunition is a dark art and incredibly difficult, it really is not very difficult.

There have already been cases where individuals have obtained obsolete weapons and then manufactured ammunition and these weapons have been used in crime, which has resulted in changes in the law regarding obsolete calibres.

But its only going to take one incident when reloading materials are stolen / obtained from premises with inadequate security and these then get used in a major crime. There will be a knee jerk reaction from politicians and yet more controls on ammunition- reloading prohibited like it is in many other jurisdictions - Republic of Ireland for example.

Is that a result any of us want?