Possession of ammunition components with the intent to illegally manufacture Section 1 ammunition.

[25 Sharps]

How so?

View attachment 331999

Read post 61 above for the extract from the VCR Act.

However as that is a centrefire pistol you’d be fine but, that is not what you asked, you asked about a shot pistol.

If it was a straight .410 pistol then you’d not be able to buy cap type primers for metallic cartridges legally.

 

[Heym SR20]

I don’t really see what the issues are:

1) You have an FAC and permission to hold a firearm and appropriate ammunition. You have a few different deer legal cartridges on your ticket. You have bullets, primers, brass, powders and reloading dies appropriate for those cartridges.

You don’t have a firearm in 9x19mm, nor the authority to possess ammunition in this calibre. Yet you can still buy the component parts. But why on earth would you want to possess 9x19 brass, bullets, primers, powder and dies if you don’t have authority to possess such ammunition??

In the past as soon as soon as you made a 9x19 cartridge you would be in breech of the Firearms Act. Now, if the CPS can show that you “intended” to make ammo for which you have no authority then you would be in breech.

I suppose you go to the gunshop and you pick up powder and bullets for a colleague or friend. Well it will be down to your own judgement that he has a valid FAC. If you start buying components for “mate in the pub” then you may have a little explaining to do.

 

[palmer_mike]

I don’t really see what the issues are:

You might have missed my earlier post (#32)

 

[tackb]

FAC holders are not beyond manufacturing illegal ammunition.

with the exception of AP and explosive/incendary as FAC holders we don't have illegal ammunition , we may not poses authority for that particular calibre which makes it sadly illegal for us to hold it but the ammo itself isn't illegal

and personally if an FAC holder who has been cleared to hold for example 308 ammo what harm is there if he has say 303 ammo in his possession but nothing to shoot it from , he may buy a 303 in the future or he may have had one in the past and intends to get another ?

this just strikes me as another means to hassle an already lawabiding section of society , FAC holders should get a pass on this unless they are doing something properly illegal like the aforementioned RFD's

 

[Len the dog]

Sorry, didn’t make it crystal clear enough for the pedants.

 

[nic531]

my perception is that out will be no different from any of the other legislation where the intent is a point to prove... hence you would be interviewed under caution... probably after being 'invited' in for a voluntary interview.
Personally it would be a cold day in hell before I would attend a voluntary interview.
If they have enough to put to me, they can nick me and start a custody clock and grant me all of the rights to legal representation etc.

 

[Heym SR20]

with the exception of AP and explosive/incendary as FAC holders we don't have illegal ammunition , we may not poses authority for that particular calibre which makes it sadly illegal for us to hold it but the ammo itself isn't illegal

and personally if an FAC holder who has been cleared to hold for example 308 ammo what harm is there if he has say 303 ammo in his possession but nothing to shoot it from , he may buy a 303 in the future or he may have had one in the past and intends to get another ?

Be very careful about holding ammunition for which you do not have authorisation. It can result in quite a bit of bother.

 

[tackb]

Be very careful about holding ammunition for which you do not have authorisation. It can result in quite a bit of bother.

Agreed , my point is though that for an FAC holder should it really matter ? I know it does but disagree that it should

 

[Heym SR20]

Agreed , my point is though that for an FAC holder should it really matter ? I know it does but disagree that it should

Quite. It doesn’t matter. But make sure that you hold within your limits of ammunition and make sure you don’t have ammunition that you are not authorised to possess.

So be careful not to mix ammo when sharing vehicles, accommodation or just stalking together . If you are guide, check your client has not left a magazine full of cartridges in the back of your truck etc. or if you taking a lift, be vigilant on your own ammo.

Take an ammo wallet or box and make sure every space is occupied with either a live round or an empty case. At the end of day, make sure each space is still occupied. If it’s not - where is the case or live round?

 

[Harry mac]

I can just imagine the interview.
Police. We searched your house and found 200 rounds and components to make 500 more.
You. YES that's correct I can hold 200 rounds.
Police. But we found components to make a further 500.
You. But that would be illegal to make anymore and that's why you only found 200 rounds.
Police But you could of made more?
You. Could is not intend is it.
Police. Thanks for your time you are free to go.

I think it's quite clear that the word Intent is the crucial wording, so nothing to worry the FAC holder who has authority to hold those components.

Of course, the alternative ending to that scenario is, "I'm arresting you on SUSPICION of having the intent to illegally manufacture ammunition". At which point all your guns and gear get confiscated and you get a free lift to the cop shop. They then look into it, find there's been no crime committed and send you home. It then takes you 2 years of hassle to get anything back, and probably more than a few quid in legal advice and/or solicitors' fees. You then get most/some of it back, the guns are rusty and quite a few things will be broken.

 

[Harry mac]

I honestly don't think it would get as far as the CPS.
Any sensible senior officer with a good knowledge of the law is not going to even let the matter go as far as the CPS and if guns are removed, I think they would be returned very quickly

Have you ever had guns removed by the police?

 

[Lee260]

Of course, the alternative ending to that scenario is, "I'm arresting you on SUSPICION of having the intent to illegally manufacture ammunition". At which point all your guns and gear get confiscated and you get a free lift to the cop shop. They then look into it, find there's been no crime committed and send you home. It then takes you 2 years of hassle to get anything back, and probably more than a few quid in legal advice and/or solicitors' fees. You then get most/some of it back, the guns are rusty and quite a few things will be broken.

Is this what has happened to you. I don't see why you would have to get further legal help when there was no offence committed or suspicion that you may be about to commit an offence.

 

[Harry mac]

Is this what has happened to you. I don't see why you would have to get further legal help when there was no offence committed or suspicion that you may be about to commit an offence.

Not had guns confiscated, but recovered after a burglary. Took us just short of 2 years to get them back, even though they were recovered less than a week after being stolen.

 

[mealiejimmy]

I had a gamekeeper pal who had his guns removed after a truck driver made some false accusations against him.
The police investigated, showed that the accusations were false and he had his guns back in less than a week

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Bowland blades]

Might we perhaps remind people and the Government that Cocaine comes from Mexico etc and Heroin from Afganistan etc . Both are very illegal yet there is so much on these substances in our nation That a Motorway traffic Car caught the biggest seizure on the M6 because the suspension of a LWB transit was on its bump stops! Firearms do not need to be imported they can be made right here in the UK as can ammo as well as coming in with all those drugs .
Criminals do not require MOA the majority are likely too high to shoot straight. We have already have seen AK 47 full auto etc . So why dont we say it as it is ?
Just a handy way of deflecting public critic aimed at Parliament ( and there has been plenty stoners and alcoholics among them lot) Heck they even have a free bar serving alcohol when debating important and complex matters.
Do i believe in Licencing ? Yeah but its not really a solution just a necessity that we attempt weed out those plainly unsuited

 

[Lee260]

Not had guns confiscated, but recovered after a burglary. Took us just short of 2 years to get them back, even though they were recovered less than a week after being stolen.

What was their reasoning for not giving them back for 2 years.

 

[Harry mac]

What was their reasoning for not giving them back for 2 years.

They said "they were required for evidence".
The guns were never shown in court, and we were later informed that photographs would have sufficed any way.

 

[Lee260]

They said "they were required for evidence".
The guns were never shown in court, and we were later informed that photographs would have sufficed any way.

That does sound bad. They could have returned them on the proviso thay you kept them until the court case was heard.

 

[KimE]

I don’t really see what the issues are:

1) You have an FAC and permission to hold a firearm and appropriate ammunition. You have a few different deer legal cartridges on your ticket. You have bullets, primers, brass, powders and reloading dies appropriate for those cartridges.

You don’t have a firearm in 9x19mm, nor the authority to possess ammunition in this calibre. Yet you can still buy the component parts. But why on earth would you want to possess 9x19 brass, bullets, primers, powder and dies if you don’t have authority to possess such ammunition??

In the past as soon as soon as you made a 9x19 cartridge you would be in breech of the Firearms Act. Now, if the CPS can show that you “intended” to make ammo for which you have no authority then you would be in breech.

I suppose you go to the gunshop and you pick up powder and bullets for a colleague or friend. Well it will be down to your own judgement that he has a valid FAC. If you start buying components for “mate in the pub” then you may have a little explaining to do.

I do have reloading tools brass, primers, bullets and powder to load 6,5*55 as I had a combination gun in what caliber and sold it, as I live in Sweden its not a problem only if I make ammunition of it.

Last august the law for silencers changed in Sweden so you can have a silencer without any paperwork as long as you have a permission for a firearm to fit it on, so if you have an unthreaded rifle its illegal to have a silencer until its made to fit your rifle. If you sell your rifle the silencer is illegal in the same way as left over ammunition.

 

[Heym SR20]

Might we perhaps remind people and the Government that Cocaine comes from Mexico etc and Heroin from Afganistan etc . Both are very illegal yet there is so much on these substances in our nation That a Motorway traffic Car caught the biggest seizure on the M6 because the suspension of a LWB transit was on its bump stops! Firearms do not need to be imported they can be made right here in the UK as can ammo as well as coming in with all those drugs .
Criminals do not require MOA the majority are likely too high to shoot straight. We have already have seen AK 47 full auto etc . So why dont we say it as it is ?
Just a handy way of deflecting public critic aimed at Parliament ( and there has been plenty stoners and alcoholics among them lot) Heck they even have a free bar serving alcohol when debating important and complex matters.
Do i believe in Licencing ? Yeah but its not really a solution just a necessity that we attempt weed out those plainly unsuited

Rather agree with you, abd indeed the latest Home Office guidance - there should be a high threshold to gun ownership in the UK, and IMHO we about have it correct. The guidance states the focus should be on the individual and their suitability rather on what particular type of firearm etc.

The system is chocked by endless paperwork that achieves really very little.

Mind you if we didn’t have such a beauracratic system what fill the pages of the SD