RWS cases susprisingly useless after a couple of reloads

[Pine Marten]

This weekend I finally sat down to load a batch of 7x65R rounds using Fox bullets, having successfully developed a load in the summer. I'd spent the week going through the tedious process of resizing, trimming, cleaning etc, and so I was annoyed when I loaded just the second round and there was no resistance at all when using the bullet seater. There was no neck tension at all, I just then just removed the bullet with my hands. Then the same happened with the 3rd one. And the fourth. And indeed all but 4 from 50 cases. So now I had a load of primed cases that we so much scrap, but I still had to resize and decap them all. Massive waste of time. I dug up some more once-fired ones, and they were all fine, no trouble. But I was surprised that after two or maybe three reloads, the RWS brass is unusable. It is noticeably very hard brass to resize, you need to use a lot of lube to avoid damaging stuff. Indeed I broke a depriming rod, got a case stuck in the die, had to buy a kit to fix all of that, then pulled the head off a case, I mean it massively put me off the process which is why it's taken me so long to see this through.

Doesn't matter, now I know, and it turns out I've accumulated enough RWS once-fired brass to last me a decade... How does that compare to your experience? The cheapo Winchester brass I use for my 7mm-08 just seems to go on and on.

 

[finnbear270]

Anneal.

 

[Steff]

Once fired by you? If not, I have a suspicion …

 

[Pine Marten]

Once fired by you? If not, I have a suspicion …

Yes, by me. Cases from a batch of factory rounds.

 

[Donkey Basher]

Anneal.

+1

I’m using RWS 308W brass & having no issues with that what so ever.

What are the dimensions of the necks for sized & unsized brass? - external diameter & wall thickness at three points equidistant around the circumference?

How does external diameter less 2x neck thickness compare to diameter of the bullet?

 

[Jamsie]

I'd have to say that my experience with RWS brass is markedly different from the OP's.
Excellent brass for reloading. Sizes and trims well with very consistent neck tension.
I normally use Lapua but I've no issues squeezing a half dozen reloads out of RWS cases.

Jamsie

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Perhaps I am being stupid here, but might the problem not be die related?

 

[finnbear270]

"but I still had to resize and decap them all" If you might have had a senior moment/s & not actually resized them, you could have run a handful through a neck die & test chambered them, without de priming.

 

[finnbear270]

If you did re size full length & only 4 were correct, I suggest you have had three firings did you say?, they have now got springback that needs annealing out.

 

[Cottis]

How do you size your brass? FL die, neck die (if so, what sort of die), bushing die, FL without expander and then mandrel? Annealing will always help but I doubt twice fired brass is gone to the dogs enough to not retain sufficient brass memory to realise adequate seating of a bullet. Or at least enough to hold a bullet in situ. RWS is fairly hard but surely not that hard.

Something has gone wrong with the sizing process surely?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The diameter of the small hole for the primer ignition is with RWS, in my experience slightly smaller so that American decapping pins do get stuck. Once fired cases from a neighbour are soft to resize, again in my experience annealing will be the way to go.

 

[enfieldspares]

The diameter of the small hole for the primer ignition is with RWS, in my experience slightly smaller so that American decapping pins do get stuck. Once fired cases from a neighbour are soft to resize, again in my experience annealing will be the way to go.

I have "liked" this but actually a would be better! I had the same issue (I think we all did) with Hirtenberg cases - headstamps were usually * HP * so younger SD members...be aware!. This need for a small pin. The first sign if you were not aware that they, Hirtenberg rifle cases, had a smaller flash hole was when your decapping rod bent! So needing a whole new decapping rod!

 

[Selous]

This weekend I finally sat down to load a batch of 7x65R rounds using Fox bullets, having successfully developed a load in the summer. I'd spent the week going through the tedious process of resizing, trimming, cleaning etc, and so I was annoyed when I loaded just the second round and there was no resistance at all when using the bullet seater. There was no neck tension at all, I just then just removed the bullet with my hands. Then the same happened with the 3rd one. And the fourth. And indeed all but 4 from 50 cases. So now I had a load of primed cases that we so much scrap, but I still had to resize and decap them all. Massive waste of time. I dug up some more once-fired ones, and they were all fine, no trouble. But I was surprised that after two or maybe three reloads, the RWS brass is unusable. It is noticeably very hard brass to resize, you need to use a lot of lube to avoid damaging stuff. Indeed I broke a depriming rod, got a case stuck in the die, had to buy a kit to fix all of that, then pulled the head off a case, I mean it massively put me off the process which is why it's taken me so long to see this through.

Doesn't matter, now I know, and it turns out I've accumulated enough RWS once-fired brass to last me a decade... How does that compare to your experience? The cheapo Winchester brass I use for my 7mm-08 just seems to go on and on.

Neck tension is set by the diameter of the sizing button in a conventional die set.
If you remove the recapping rod and size a case you should have too much neck tension if the die is properly adjusted.
Measure the sizing button diameter which should be 0.002 to 0.003 less than bullet diameter ( .281 to .282).
Now resize a case with the recapping rod back in place. You should feel resistance when the case is pulled out as the neck is sized up by the sizer ball.
If that doesn’t work get a blowtorch and heat the case neck for 6 seconds to anneal it and try again

 

[Pine Marten]

OK, so it seems I should have provided more detail. I use Lee dies, and the relevant one here is the full-length resizing die with the built-in decapping and neck sizing rod. I always use that. There isn't really anything to adjust apart from the length of the combined de-capping and neck-sizing rod.

The affected brass has been fired three times. There are probably four cases that sneakily skipped a rotation which is why they were fine. I will admit to never having annealed anything. So maybe I'll get out my duck-fluff-removing blow torch and try that on a couple of cases, see if it helps. Thanks for the tips!

 

[enfieldspares]

OK, so it seems I should have provided more detail. I use Lee dies, and the relevant one here is the full-length resizing die with the built-in decapping and neck sizing rod. I always use that. There isn't really anything to adjust apart from the length of the combined de-capping and neck-sizing rod.

The affected brass has been fired three times. There are probably four cases that sneakily skipped a rotation which is why they were fine. I will admit to never having annealed anything. So maybe I'll get out my duck-fluff-removing blow torch and try that on a couple of cases, see if it helps. Thanks for the tips!

Or if the sizing die rod is an issue spin it in a household drill and hold some carborundum paper against it to remove just a whisker. Which may be a solution?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Or if the sizing die rod is an issue spin it in a household drill and hold some carborundum paper against it to remove just a whisker. Which may be a solution?

I will second that, half a thou smaller diameter should improve things.

 

[malmick]

I agree with the above about reducing the diameter of the decapper if needs be, that's assuming that it's clean and doesn't have a build up of deposits from previous reloading sessions.

 

[User00044]

Use a traditional bar of soap as an indicator 1/3 of an inch below the shoulder , rotating the neck in a gas torch flame . When the soap melts the neck and shoulder will be annealed .
Reference Alantoo's thread on the subject , alternatively @mealiejimmy was induction annealing brass for a small fee .
Both will be cheaper than buying new .

 

[JamesH]

I’ve reloaded RWS brass for my 6.5x55 multiple times now and it seems to be holding up just fine. I do need to make sure the cases are well lubed and the die is clean after I also had a recapping / expander pin get stuck in one case.

 

[sakosmith]

I have had a thought! Have you measured the resized cases in a case gauge to see if the resizing die is set up correctly in the press. I find them indispensable for ensuring correct case dimensions. If the cases aren't fully pushed into the die fully the neck may not be closed up enough.