Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
it isn’t nosey! My loads are fairly accurate but very much not hot. I’m up to 5 on my 243s. 6.5x55 3 or 4. 3 on my 7mm rem mag. They all started life as factory ammo shot through my own rifles.
Seems to keep on working.
RWS cases susprisingly useless after a couple of reloads
- Thread starter Pine Marten
- Start date
Seems to keep on working.
nowler
Well-Known Member
when you fire the case, it expands to fit the chamber. However, the chamber also expands due to the pressure (within its elastic limits) and the brass expands with it. 50-60k psi has that effect on chambers. The chamber then contracts back to the size it was. Your brass wants to stay at the largest size, which is why your bolt has an extraction cam on it. If it didn’t, you’d literally be hammering the bolt handle to get it to extract the case.
So, once fired, the case is fractionally bigger than the chamber. If you don’t fl size your cases they are hard to chamber, your relying on your locking cams to pull the bolt closed squashing the case into the chamber. This doesn’t make easy chambering, you run the risk of galling your bolt lugs/abutments, you’re stressing the action which isn’t good for accuracy etc etc.
Everyone can obviously do whatever suits them. You’ll get away with only neck sizing for a few firings if you’re shooting mild loads, but eventually the case will struggle to chamber and will need to be fl sized. The issue you now face is that the brass is work hardnend into the enlarged state and you’re gonna struggle to size it at the base. You can’t anneal the base of a case to fix this.
Lots of factory rifles have chambers which are out of round or a bolt face that isn’t perpendicular to the chamber. Such situations make it a hit or a miss when trying to chamber rounds that have only been neck sized.
To my way of thinking, there is no downside to full length sizing every firing. Consistency, easy chambering, accuracy - all the things I look for in my reloads. All the top shooters in the world full length size every time, they wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t advantageous.
Happy shooting whatever you choose to do. I’m only trying to help.
So, once fired, the case is fractionally bigger than the chamber. If you don’t fl size your cases they are hard to chamber, your relying on your locking cams to pull the bolt closed squashing the case into the chamber. This doesn’t make easy chambering, you run the risk of galling your bolt lugs/abutments, you’re stressing the action which isn’t good for accuracy etc etc.
Everyone can obviously do whatever suits them. You’ll get away with only neck sizing for a few firings if you’re shooting mild loads, but eventually the case will struggle to chamber and will need to be fl sized. The issue you now face is that the brass is work hardnend into the enlarged state and you’re gonna struggle to size it at the base. You can’t anneal the base of a case to fix this.
Lots of factory rifles have chambers which are out of round or a bolt face that isn’t perpendicular to the chamber. Such situations make it a hit or a miss when trying to chamber rounds that have only been neck sized.
To my way of thinking, there is no downside to full length sizing every firing. Consistency, easy chambering, accuracy - all the things I look for in my reloads. All the top shooters in the world full length size every time, they wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t advantageous.
Happy shooting whatever you choose to do. I’m only trying to help.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The OP @Pine Marten is using a 7x65r Drilling. It’s a break action design that head space off the Rim. When it fires the case expands and the action flexes so that the fired case is a thou or two longer than the chamber. It typically lengthens a little more than if it had been fired in a bolt action chamber.
You need to full length resize because otherwise your reloads will be too long to allow the gun to close easily. Even a fired case will often not allow the gun to fully lock up.
With a break action you do not have the camming action of a bolt to spring a slightly too long cartridge into battery.
A break action gun is strong when all locked up. They are not strong when open and trying to force a gun closed on a slightly overlong case that hasn’t been full length resized you will damage it.
Hence the need to full length resize.
And I was told this by the Ferlach gunsmith who built my 7x65r and provided me the dies to reload and with very strict instructions to ignore all the nonsense about neck sizing only.
You need to full length resize because otherwise your reloads will be too long to allow the gun to close easily. Even a fired case will often not allow the gun to fully lock up.
With a break action you do not have the camming action of a bolt to spring a slightly too long cartridge into battery.
A break action gun is strong when all locked up. They are not strong when open and trying to force a gun closed on a slightly overlong case that hasn’t been full length resized you will damage it.
Hence the need to full length resize.
And I was told this by the Ferlach gunsmith who built my 7x65r and provided me the dies to reload and with very strict instructions to ignore all the nonsense about neck sizing only.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Annealing has been suggested. I did do this with one batch of RWS 7x65r cases and it did make them a little easier to resize - but they already had had half a dozen firings.
Simple to do. Blow torch or gas ring on the oven. Hold the case head in your fingers. Twiddle it in the flame. You will soon know if you have got it too hot as your fingers let go. After a couple you quickly get the skill. And far quicker than messing about with drills etc.
And remember a good crimp as last action of the reload.
Simple to do. Blow torch or gas ring on the oven. Hold the case head in your fingers. Twiddle it in the flame. You will soon know if you have got it too hot as your fingers let go. After a couple you quickly get the skill. And far quicker than messing about with drills etc.
And remember a good crimp as last action of the reload.
Correct! and make darn sure those cases were resized
Totally agree
I'm not an advocate of neck sizing for all reasons you've given and the chambering worry if a follow up is required . Zedeca (forgive my spelling) tested the theory that neck sizing produced more accurate ammunition , it remained unproven after thousands of rounds , now there's a challenging read .
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for your advice. I currently have enough cases that are just fine to last me years, so I might try annealing the loose ones as a learning experience, but it's not a pressing problem. Frankly in a good year I use two 7x65R cartridges in anger... This year has been a good year, I may yet get to three!
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a die issue to me PM.
I would suggest to clean your dies (Squirt of break cleaner does wonders). Also, take your die set up apart and re-install using the manual instructions. Also, make sure the bolts are tight on the handle of your press so it cams consistently.
I would suggest to clean your dies (Squirt of break cleaner does wonders). Also, take your die set up apart and re-install using the manual instructions. Also, make sure the bolts are tight on the handle of your press so it cams consistently.
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the explanation which is thorough and makes sense, I knew there would be technical detail behind your response. And the explanation is helpful.
There is a downside to me in FL resizing as I don’t have a press! But I don’t shoot lots and lots of rounds so works fine for me but sounds like brass will only last a few firings. Good to know.
Thanks again and apologies @Pine Marten for inadvertently hijacking your thread.
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