Should be three different AW's.
Ethics ….
- Thread starter Ronin
- Start date
NickJ
Well-Known Member
And to compound the fact the DSC1 courses have been reduced in time...DSC2 used to be three successful stalks, now one. You can now do a two day course, shoot one deer and gain DSC2, seems a backwards direction to me
Ronin
Distinguished Member
Certainly backwards and further evidence of the two tier relationship towards training (cash cow) and ethical dispatch of deer (you’ve passed basic and now on your own )
Yet zero ownership of due dilligance towards producing a course that’s relevant to modern deer management incorporating all facets
Yet zero ownership of due dilligance towards producing a course that’s relevant to modern deer management incorporating all facets
Im not sure I agree that the dsc2 is any worse than the old. There's been plenty of comments from years prior to people who have dsc2 that no one is sure how they managed it, I've also be told this by guides about others they have had stalking. If you can successfully stalk and gralloch etc as part of an agreed cull target then answer the various questions regarding scenarios not encountered then why should it matter if you do it once or 3 times.
If anything more people willing to go through dsc2 now is a good thing as it will help the overall stalking populations level of competence vs a handful going through it before.
I've yet to complete my dsc2 but it's on the cards, not because I need it for ground/syndicate but because I feel the dedication to the knowledge of what I'm doing is a great thing, just as I completed the Advanced Deer managment course for the same reason
If anything more people willing to go through dsc2 now is a good thing as it will help the overall stalking populations level of competence vs a handful going through it before.
I've yet to complete my dsc2 but it's on the cards, not because I need it for ground/syndicate but because I feel the dedication to the knowledge of what I'm doing is a great thing, just as I completed the Advanced Deer managment course for the same reason
Biggest issues are:
1. Firearms training, should be a pre-requisite before SGC and FAC are issued.
For all the admin, fees and time involved, it would be worthwhile even if it prevented a single accident/injury/death.
I have seen poor muzzle awareness, trigger finger placement and awareness of trajectories, ricochet risk.
Shooting at angles and over obstructions should also be covered.
An improperly supported rifle slipping off a set of sticks or tree stump is a hazard.
2. The quality of venison going into the food chain.
Poor awareness of what is good practise and what is bad.
Contaminants are often invisible to the naked eye.
Some people/places still hosing down chest cavities and 'wiping out' to make the carcass 'look good'
Even blood can be a contamimant, best not to spread it around. Minimal cuts to the carcass vs trimming.
Splitting the chest cavity and pelvic girdle is industry standard but this is not necessary IMO, as thr processor will have much better tools and standards vs. the (often rusty) saw.
Back passage should come out as one in the field, seen many carcasses come in with pellets strewn through the abdomen as the back passage was just pulled and not removed completely or tied off.
If you are shooting for your own consumption, there is no shame in pairing the back legs off to salvage a carcass and leaving the rest behind. Sometimes recovery is not worthwhile with large deer and it should be left in the interest of saftey. No arguments for the smaller species but how many do you see strewn across the roadside?
3. The above two should come into account long before any 'deer welfare' comes into the picture. I believe in a clean, and hopefully near-instant kill when culling deer, which gives the easiest chance of recovery, but this is not always the case. I've seen people jeopardise their own and others saftey for the sake of carcass retrieval before. Not worth it for £1-2 per kg, let alone £10!
1. Firearms training, should be a pre-requisite before SGC and FAC are issued.
For all the admin, fees and time involved, it would be worthwhile even if it prevented a single accident/injury/death.
I have seen poor muzzle awareness, trigger finger placement and awareness of trajectories, ricochet risk.
Shooting at angles and over obstructions should also be covered.
An improperly supported rifle slipping off a set of sticks or tree stump is a hazard.
2. The quality of venison going into the food chain.
Poor awareness of what is good practise and what is bad.
Contaminants are often invisible to the naked eye.
Some people/places still hosing down chest cavities and 'wiping out' to make the carcass 'look good'
Even blood can be a contamimant, best not to spread it around. Minimal cuts to the carcass vs trimming.
Splitting the chest cavity and pelvic girdle is industry standard but this is not necessary IMO, as thr processor will have much better tools and standards vs. the (often rusty) saw.
Back passage should come out as one in the field, seen many carcasses come in with pellets strewn through the abdomen as the back passage was just pulled and not removed completely or tied off.
If you are shooting for your own consumption, there is no shame in pairing the back legs off to salvage a carcass and leaving the rest behind. Sometimes recovery is not worthwhile with large deer and it should be left in the interest of saftey. No arguments for the smaller species but how many do you see strewn across the roadside?
3. The above two should come into account long before any 'deer welfare' comes into the picture. I believe in a clean, and hopefully near-instant kill when culling deer, which gives the easiest chance of recovery, but this is not always the case. I've seen people jeopardise their own and others saftey for the sake of carcass retrieval before. Not worth it for £1-2 per kg, let alone £10!
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
No one does anything better anywhere.
You have nothing at all to learn, and much to teach.
You do have a bit of a job on your hands convincing the rest of us.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
Where and when did you take your bike test? a little different to mine.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
That bike test was what my older brother did in Norwich, 46 years ago, he was 19 at the time, and he did it on a borrowed bike.
I did mine much later in life, passed 1st time in 1997. Much different for me, but we got caught up in roadworks through Kings Lynn, so it seemed a very short test to me.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
How many years ago was yours
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Ethics
Once upon a time there was such a thing as fair play and doing the right thing or treating others as you wish to be treated. Indeed there was such a thing as the spirit of the law.
Or at least that’s how most of us were probably brought up or like to think we were.
Nowadays its all about me, my rights and provided I am not caught breaking the law then thats fine. And if I do break the law - well so what - the police will never prosecute even if you reams of video evidence and witness testimony etc.
If there is a contract in place - well again who cares and if you do then take me to court.
And it seems to be the same everywhere and in every walk of life.
Frankly hardly surprising when our leaders both politically and at top of business and society etc all seem to not give any regard to the law.
And heaven know what will happen if certain individuals get back into power.
Once upon a time there was such a thing as fair play and doing the right thing or treating others as you wish to be treated. Indeed there was such a thing as the spirit of the law.
Or at least that’s how most of us were probably brought up or like to think we were.
Nowadays its all about me, my rights and provided I am not caught breaking the law then thats fine. And if I do break the law - well so what - the police will never prosecute even if you reams of video evidence and witness testimony etc.
If there is a contract in place - well again who cares and if you do then take me to court.
And it seems to be the same everywhere and in every walk of life.
Frankly hardly surprising when our leaders both politically and at top of business and society etc all seem to not give any regard to the law.
And heaven know what will happen if certain individuals get back into power.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
55 years agoHow many years ago was yours
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Oh ok, I'm going to ask big bro for some more details then, just to get to the bottom of the story.... if yours was more involved and a good few years earlier his recollection may not be up to scratch...
As it happens I would certainly advocate a mandatory 5-yearly retest.
Standards of driving in the UK are utterly abysmal and, as you rightly point out, vehicles are considerably more of a risk to the general public.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
as an all round look at it - I personally don’t think re test for driving ability and road sense would make a jot of difference drivers today are ignorant of pedestrians and the normal courtesy and are all me me me get out out of the syndrome which are over in seconds driving ability / courtesy has found it’s own level just like water, only solution now is CCTV more police on the road with stouter controls including licence removal that won’t happen it is escalating into i rule, lorry drivers have to do CPD what’s do car drivers diddly squat find their own level and crack on jumping lights forceful driving and disrespect for cyclists and pedestrians is the newish norm. we’re doomed i tell yer doomed
Cr*p driving isn't confined to car owners, you should see some of the idiotic displays from the eight wheelers round here, & Yes I know what I'm on about because I held all classes for many years, so I know it's possible to navigate our local roads without breaking the white line.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
yep I think everyone over the years have had a bad turn with a HGV with lorries it’s not a small dent or a scrape it’s usually far worse
Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
it'd turn into a money racket - have to shell out cash for a cert each year
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Go to Asia, then you will see poor driving standards.
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