Lead Ban- UK Reach 2nd Consultation

[cjm1066]

The second consultation has been launched:

Headlines

Live quarry shooting with shot - Restriction on the placing on the market and use

Live quarry shooting with bullets - No recommendation in this document (awaiting further information from public consultation) - so perhaps still time to influence the outcome? PS H&S probably don't read SD (shame on them), respond to them via the consultation.

Live quarry shooting with airgun ammunition - No action

The consultation closes on 10 Dec 2023.

https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/cr...tion-opinion-document---draft-sea-opinion.pdf

 

[Nimrod1960]

From the exec summary:
“Amongst consumers of high volumes of game meat that has been shot with lead ammunition (shot or bullets), there is a risk to the health of vulnerable people (young children and women of child-bearing age) that is not adequately controlled.”

I doubt there is much real life science behind this. Probably same as many other potential harms in food and chemicals. IE a risk not a certainty and only if ludicrously large amounts consumed.

Is it my perception or does this whole document have a whiff of the anti blob about it ?

Having got that off my chest, I have been using steel for birds for two seasons without issue.

The only issue I see is for the extreme high bird clan who will not admit it but prick more than they clean kill anyway and for whom the non lead ballistics don’t work. Same sort of shoots who bury birds.

I kind of get the environment bit. I did the maths a while ago. Number of shots over one drive x average loads x days per year and years shot. In some places thats allot , tons and tons of lead. Although the lead did come out of the ground in the first place .

Anyway all we can hope for is a reasonably timed transition. Once the blob gets moving it is impossible to stop.

Going over to non lead on rifles next on the basis of less carcass damage.

 

[timbrayford]

At first glance it looks like an extensive bull**** baffles brains document, I only hope that the voice of shooting will belated grow a pair and drop its support for the lead shot ban on live quarry. Fortunately for EU nations FACE is challenging the basic assumptions made in the relevant EU REACH document, but no such luck here!

 

[Nimrod1960]

At first glance it looks like an extensive bull**** baffles brains document, I only hope that the voice of shooting will belated grow a pair and drop its support for the lead shot ban on live quarry. Fortunately for EU nations FACE is challenging the basic assumptions made in the relevant EU REACH document, but no such luck here!

Too late the blob has it’s fangs in like a stubborn tick.

 

[tim@tcs]

I’m sure a Scandinavian govt report stated that to ingest the same amount of lead from eating shot game and it showing up in blood tests as drinking water from lead pipes (which is minuscule) a person would need to eat several tons of game a year for their lifetime!

 

[Dixie Dean]

Although they have no data at the moment, I was interested to see what the report said about ground water...
'The Agency considers that the concentration of lead in surface and ground water at sites used for intensive or regular shooting for extended periods of time will result in concentrations increasing above background levels (Uses #1, #4, #5, #6). '
So they will have to ban lead on roofs too, as I'm sure rain water doesn't hover on the vast tonnages of lead keeping properties dry.

 

[Kersnow]

Am very disappointed with the BASC response re small clay shooting clubs (in the thread closed to comments) - which is very negative and would likely lead to the closure of most, small, not for profit clubs.

I would guess a lot of members shoot at these sorts of locations and may well give up shooting with consequential loss of BASC members.

Very short sighted and negative.

Would like to know what the CPSA view on all this is.

 

[Dixie Dean]

Am very disappointed with the BASC response re small clay shooting clubs (in the thread closed to comments) - which is very negative and would likely lead to the closure of most, small, not for profit clubs.

I would guess a lot of members shoot at these sorts of locations and may well give up shooting with consequential loss of BASC members.

Very short sighted and negative.

Would like to know what the CPSA view on all this is.

For all the restrictions it seems a bit mad that the military and police are excluded... 'Military, police and other non-civilian uses were excluded from the scope of this request, as were indoor uses (such as at indoor firing ranges) and lead-containing propellants.'.... Their ranges ought to have the same considerations, how can small clubs be a danger and not military / police training areas.

 

[timbrayford]

Although they have no data at the moment, I was interested to see what the report said about ground water...
'The Agency considers that the concentration of lead in surface and ground water at sites used for intensive or regular shooting for extended periods of time will result in concentrations increasing above background levels (Uses #1, #4, #5, #6). '
So they will have to ban lead on roofs too, as I'm sure rain water doesn't hover on the vast tonnages of lead keeping properties dry.

It would make sense, unlike lead shot which is relatively inert lead flashing dissolves to form water soluble compounds in acid rain. It looks like the shooting community is once again the whipping boy for problems not of our making

 

[Terry2016]

Am very disappointed with the BASC response re small clay shooting clubs (in the thread closed to comments) - which is very negative and would likely lead to the closure of most, small, not for profit clubs.

I would guess a lot of members shoot at these sorts of locations and may well give up shooting with consequential loss of BASC members.

Very short sighted and negative.

Would like to know what the CPSA view on all this is

From the CPSA website response to the consultation

In response to the HSE, our proposal to mitigate the potential risk posed by lead shot is as follows. Our current position for clay shooting allows shooters to use 28g lead cartridges, which has been identified as a risk if allowed to continue through the potential misuse of clay cartridges in game shooting and, in turn, contamination of the food chain. As the national governing body for clay shooting, we would propose to restrict lead loads from 28g to 24g (a 15% reduction) at all clay shooting grounds. This change would mitigate the risk of migration, as 24g is not a viable game load.

link below

Lead Statement from CPSA CEO Iain Parker

Please click on the link above to read the statement from CEO Iain Parker re the continued use of lead cartridges...

www.cpsa.co.uk

 

[tim@tcs]

I’d disagree and have shot plenty of pheasants with 18 gram 28 bore loads and 21 gram 12 bore loads!

Still if they think it will work then fine, besides if you are shooting for the pot and not a dealer you should be allowed to use lead, bloody nanny beurocrats

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Interesting that the same information posted above from CPSA website that I provided in the other thread was met with unwarranted abusive comments that closed the thread but in this thread the same information causes not a ripple.

Progress has been made pushing back against the HSE proposals, this consultation is the last one, and lots of consultation responses are needed.

 

[Stevie/P]

I would guess a lot of members shoot at these sorts of locations and may well give up shooting

Exactly this as I now have given up clay shooting mainly due to the lack of shoots locally price of cartridges and pending lead ban.

 

[muddy42]

I have read the thread and bits of the document, but just to confirm:

This is another consultation closing in December 2023, however the document makes certain proposals, I guess everyone is asked for their comment on these proposals. In summary the proposals are to ban the sale and use of lead shotgun cartridges, but for lead rifle bullets they propose no change.

Is my understanding correct? Is their any timeframe for the shotgun cartridge ban?

For the record, I am yet to see any scientific evidence behind this and feel that small scale shooters and ‘one-for-the-potters’ have been sold out for the sake of large scale game shooting, by and for the rich, a type of shooting that I have slight ethical concerns with anyway.

 

[JTO]

Although they have no data at the moment, I was interested to see what the report said about ground water...
'The Agency considers that the concentration of lead in surface and ground water at sites used for intensive or regular shooting for extended periods of time will result in concentrations increasing above background levels (Uses #1, #4, #5, #6). '
So they will have to ban lead on roofs too, as I'm sure rain water doesn't hover on the vast tonnages of lead keeping properties dry.

And rainwater is 'soft', I believe, which we were told in the plumbing workshop at technical college makes it plumbosolvent, IE. it dissolves lead.

 

[timbrayford]

And rainwater is 'soft', I believe, which we were told in the plumbing workshop at technical college makes it plumbosolvent, IE. it dissolves lead.

Absolutely, just look at the streaks on a tiled or slated roof underneath the flashing to witness that. But where are the streaks in the ground where lead shot has fallen, evidence please HSE!

 

[gonzo]

My first thoughts on this are...
Moving to steel shot is a bit of a no-brainer.
Moving to steel shot AND getting away from single use plastics at the same time.... Big problem. At least in the short term.

Target shooting on indoor ranges, where lead recovery is easy, is sensible to exempt.
Outdoor ranges, where huge civil works is probably going to be required, big broblem. It's not the lead recovery that is going to be the issue, but the groundwarer/rain wash issue. Backstops are going to need to be tanked and covered.

 

[CookM]

In common with many others,l shot plenty of pigeons with 21gr 20 bore cartridges l got from Roundwood many years ago.
I was really impressed hitting the clays off the hi tower at how these "pipsqueak"loads performed.
Would use if l had them again.But will be using steel when my present mixed bag runs out.

 

[25 Sharps]

From the CPSA website response to the consultation

In response to the HSE, our proposal to mitigate the potential risk posed by lead shot is as follows. Our current position for clay shooting allows shooters to use 28g lead cartridges, which has been identified as a risk if allowed to continue through the potential misuse of clay cartridges in game shooting and, in turn, contamination of the food chain. As the national governing body for clay shooting, we would propose to restrict lead loads from 28g to 24g (a 15% reduction) at all clay shooting grounds. This change would mitigate the risk of migration, as 24g is not a viable game load.

link below

Lead Statement from CPSA CEO Iain Parker

Please click on the link above to read the statement from CEO Iain Parker re the continued use of lead cartridges...

www.cpsa.co.uk

What game loads to people use in 20s and 16s?

Seems a weak argument

 

[timbrayford]

Where is the evidence that steel shot is ballistically superior to lead?