Electric Car Debate

[markj1]

child labour is an awkward one, if the kids cant mine how should they earn money?
yes it would be lovely if all kids played in the parks and got a great education but the worlds not like that. for young girls the jobs would be pretty grim

I think part of the issue is that it often the case that child labour is only raised in respect of EVs, which seems disingenuous - the problem is far bigger than that.

Child labour is almost the norm in many parts of the globe, many of the cheap garments people buy in markets and other places are made in sweatshops in Bangladesh and Vietnam etc, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

Personally, instead of widening the discussion to the merit (or lack of) of child labour, I would take a step back and ask the EV-bashing brigade : why raise this now?

 

[kenbro]

When I had a Disco a SA mate used to call it a Land Rover Recovery and pointed out how economical they were on the back of a recovery vehicle. He ran a RAV4 with about 250000 miles on it.

I bought a Freelander 2, HSE Auto, 2007 model from a member here at the back end of 2022, it had done just over 236K miles and the seller advised a rear shocker was leaking slightly.
I had the oils changed and 2 new rear shocks fitted.
It went for MOT on 10th of this month and passed.
It hasn’t needed the oil topping up since it was changed last December to it’s service done the day after this last MOT.
It’s a second car that gets a bit of rough ish use and as such has only done just over 5K miles since I bought it.
Never failed to start and never broken down.
Just what I expected.
Our previous TD5 did 168K trouble free miles before going to live in Germany.
Ken.

 

[darrel]

in my opinion the date for gasoline motors to be banned will keep getting pushed back electric cars are useless
in colder climates like the uk and up north in scotland even worse there is no inferstructure in place for electric
and not enough power gererated to cope if we all used electric vehicles i wont be changing to electric

 

[markj1]

in my opinion the date for gasoline motors to be banned will keep getting pushed back electric cars are useless
in colder climates like the uk and up north in scotland even worse there is no inferstructure in place for electric
and not enough power gererated to cope if we all used electric vehicles i wont be changing to electric

The charging infrastructure can be built, and as for the winter temperatures in Scotland......:

"In 2022, about 88 percent of all cars sold in Norway were electric cars, including battery-electric vehicles (BEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV)."

From:

Norway: PHEV and BEV market share | Statista

In 2024, almost every car sold in Norway were electric cars, including BEV and PHEV.

www.statista.com

Where there's a will there's a way.

Of course Norway has lots of hydro, but if the EVs didn't work in the winter, they wouldn't buy them in spite of the cheap electricity.

 

[gixer1]

The charging infrastructure can be built, and as for the winter temperatures in Scotland......:

"In 2022, about 88 percent of all cars sold in Norway were electric cars, including battery-electric vehicles (BEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV)."

From:

Norway: PHEV and BEV market share | Statista

In 2024, almost every car sold in Norway were electric cars, including BEV and PHEV.

www.statista.com

Where there's a will there's a way.

Of course Norway has lots of hydro, but if the EVs didn't work in the winter, they wouldn't buy them in spite of the cheap electricity.

Norway are not without issues with EV’s - they are currently having issues with ferries and tunnels relating to EV’s….

Norway is pretty efficient - U.K. haven’t got a chance with EV’s….

 

[LuckyEddie]

This is quite interesting and the discussion being had re EVs getting up to Wick is not unexpected.
A couple of bits, the first asking why charging points aren’t covered considering the rain we experience and the other being the charging space in Kendal which is too small for they guy’s EV

 

[LuckyEddie]

The charging infrastructure can be built, and as for the winter temperatures in Scotland......:

"In 2022, about 88 percent of all cars sold in Norway were electric cars, including battery-electric vehicles (BEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV)."

From:

Norway: PHEV and BEV market share | Statista

In 2024, almost every car sold in Norway were electric cars, including BEV and PHEV.

www.statista.com

Where there's a will there's a way.

Of course Norway has lots of hydro, but if the EVs didn't work in the winter, they wouldn't buy them in spite of the cheap electricity.

So they claim that you should charge your EV before it gets to 20% and then stop at 80% capacity as the charging rate decreases.
Basically on use 60% of the claimed range!
The system isn’t geared up for people in remote areas and it needs to be.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Now call me old-fashioned but as I understand it an EV has a helluva lot of small batteries which together make up the energy required to put it in motion? So…. if your prized EV is in even a minor RTA apparently it is likely that some of said batteries or their connections (here endeth my knowledge of all things EV) may be damaged - are we really going forward on the basis that in the event of such a relatively minor prang Mr Musk’s wonder child will be written off?
Surely not?

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car

For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric.

www.reuters.com

 

[NullMac]

Norway is pretty efficient - U.K. haven’t got a chance with EV’s….

Nobody has. $3bn loss from Ford on their EV's this year. This is going to be the next government bailout.

Germany bailed Siemens out to the tune of 16bn (Dollars, Euros ? can't remember) cos their wind turbine business was so bad they would have gone bust. Offshore wind farm bods are demanding an additional 70% or they won't build any more.

Unstoppable green policies. Rubber is meeting the road....

 

[markj1]

So they claim that you should charge your EV before it gets to 20% and then stop at 80% capacity as the charging rate decreases.
Basically on use 60% of the claimed range!
The system isn’t geared up for people in remote areas and it needs to be.

Charging from 20% to 80% is optimal, in order to maximise battery life, but it's not mandatory.

You can charge the battery to 100% and run it down to 0% if you like (obviously, only if you don't mind risking not reaching the charging station in time - just as you might run out of fuel if you decide to chance it once the reserve fuel light is on).

Most EVs have long warranties for the battery anyway (mine has 8 years warranty, and they will replace it FOC if the battery capacity - when fully charged - goes down to below 80% of the capacity when new).

In reality, if you ignore the recommendations for optimal battery charging regime, any ill-effects will likely only manifest themselves with the 3rd or 4th owner down the line.

In that respect it's no different to an ICE car - if you thrash it or rev it from cold etc, any long-term damage will only be evident years later.

That been said, I charge my EV by the book - not because it will make an iota of difference during the time I will have it, but because I have ingrained in me mechanical sympathy to all things mechanic (and electric).

I did the same with my ICE cars, BTW - all maintained to perfection and ran by the book. And yes, it's good to buy a second hand car off me

But, again, the '20%-80%' guideline should not deter anyone from getting an EV (they have other limitations, obviously, but this one is really not an issue) - there's no need to adhere to it if it does not suit your needs.

 

[markj1]

Now call me old-fashioned but as I understand it an EV has a helluva lot of small batteries which together make up the energy required to put it in motion? So…. if your prized EV is in even a minor RTA apparently it is likely that some of said batteries or their connections (here endeth my knowledge of all things EV) may be damaged - are we really going forward on the basis that in the event of such a relatively minor prang Mr Musk’s wonder child will be written off?
Surely not?

Insight: Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car

For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric.

www.reuters.com

Currently, insurers have an issue with EVs, because there is no way to check the condition of the battery cells. If there's any sign of impact to the battery pack, then it needs to be replaced as a precaution - and the cost is £££££ - so insurers will often just write them off.

The motor insurance industry is currently working with car manufacturers to develop a system that can diagnose the battery condition following a crash, so that it can be determined if some of the cells have been damaged or not.

But yes, until this issue is resolved, EVs will continue to be written off if the car value is sufficiently low and there's suspected damage to the battery pack.

 

[markj1]

Norway are not without issues with EV’s - they are currently having issues with ferries and tunnels relating to EV’s….

Norway is pretty efficient - U.K. haven’t got a chance with EV’s….

All true, however my point is that the ambient temperatures in Scotland during the winter should not deter you from buying an EV - if the Norwegians can manage, so can the Scots...

But yes, if you need to drive through tunnels and use ferries, and the tunnel and ferries that you intend to use do not allow EVs, then obviously you shouldn't be getting one - regardless of the weather......

 

[markj1]

Just been talking to someone who works for a Vauxhall dealer. He told me that if the computer says the battery has been charged too often with fast chargers, the battery warranty is void.

That's a good reason not buy an EV made by Vauxhall! Luckily, no such issue with my Hyundai.

 

[gonzo]

Ugly cables marching over our countryside.....
Think we are 80yrs too late for that.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Currently, insurers have an issue with EVs, because there is no way to check the condition of the battery cells. If there's any sign of impact to the battery pack, then it needs to be replaced as a precaution - and the cost is £££££ - so insurers will often just write them off.

The motor insurance industry is currently working with car manufacturers to develop a system that can diagnose the battery condition following a crash, so that it can be determined if some of the cells have been damaged or not.

But yes, until this issue is resolved, EVs will continue to be written off if the car value is sufficiently low and there's suspected damage to the battery pack.

The other issue that I’m sure insurers are looking at is the fact that EVs seem to spontaneously combust and take anything nearby with them.
Witness the house burnt out in Devon and one in America.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Charging from 20% to 80% is optimal, in order to maximise battery life, but it's not mandatory.

You can charge the battery to 100% and run it down to 0% if you like (obviously, only if you don't mind risking not reaching the charging station in time - just as you might run out of fuel if you decide to chance it once the reserve fuel light is on).

Most EVs have long warranties for the battery anyway (mine has 8 years warranty, and they will replace it FOC if the battery capacity - when fully charged - goes down to below 80% of the capacity when new).

In reality, if you ignore the recommendations for optimal battery charging regime, any ill-effects will likely only manifest themselves with the 3rd or 4th owner down the line.

In that respect it's no different to an ICE car - if you thrash it or rev it from cold etc, any long-term damage will only be evident years later.

That been said, I charge my EV by the book - not because it will make an iota of difference during the time I will have it, but because I have ingrained in me mechanical sympathy to all things mechanic (and electric).

I did the same with my ICE cars, BTW - all maintained to perfection and ran by the book. And yes, it's good to buy a second hand car off me

But, again, the '20%-80%' guideline should not deter anyone from getting an EV (they have other limitations, obviously, but this one is really not an issue) - there's no need to adhere to it if it does not suit your needs.

As a matter of interest, how many cars have you had in the past 12yrs?

 

[markj1]

As a matter of interest, how many cars have you had in the past 12yrs?

5 cars in the past 10 years. That's in our household (myself and family - we share the cars). I now have a Hyundai EV. Why?

 

[markj1]

The other issue that I’m sure insurers are looking at is the fact that EVs seem to spontaneously combust and take anything nearby with them.
Witness the house burnt out in Devon and one in America.

It's true that when an EV battery is on fire it's nigh on impossible to extinguish it.

As for spontaneous combustion, I am not sure that the statistics support it, i.e. petrol and Diesel cars have also been know to catch fire unexpectedly (the Vauxhall Zafira and the BMW Mini come to mind). We may be getting the wrong impression here simply because ICE car fires are too common and rarely reported, while an EV on fire will make the rounds on the Internet.

 

[JTO]

The other issue that I’m sure insurers are looking at is the fact that EVs seem to spontaneously combust and take anything nearby with them.
Witness the house burnt out in Devon and one in America.

I was told that a lot of house fires are caused when electric scooters are being charged.

 

[JTO]

5 cars in the past 10 years. That's in our household (myself and family - we share the cars). I now have a Hyundai EV. Why?

Traded in before the warranty runs out, or company cars, or leased vehicles?