First foray into ‘premium’ scopes? What would be good?

[Warbucks]

Don't buy anything until you decide what calibre of rifle your going to buy and what your going to be hunting with it.

To the OP, keep your money in your pocket, thinking of going to F A C and getting there is two different things, and even if you get started on F A C your likely to take 18 months to 5 years before your will be granted a deer caliber.
High end scope are at their best on low light deer shooting, lots of other scopes and n/v are better options for all round hunting.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Navarone]

Have a look at the scopes that the field air rifle boys put on their toys!

Very true indeed some of their rigs are mental.

 

[Navarone]

To the OP, keep your money in your pocket, thinking of going to F A C and getting there is two different things, and even if you get started on F A C your likely to take 18 months to 5 years before your will be granted a deer caliber.
High end scope are at their best on low light deer shooting, lots of other scopes and n/v are better options for all round hunting.

Dave (warbucks)

Wise words, more of a nice thing to have that’s all. Just a way to spend more money on shooting

 

[ColinBr]

I'd go for a Hawke Sidewinder.
You'll need adjustable mag and parallax.

 

[Navarone]

If you want a Jack of all trades then it needs to be a variable one. Yes an 8x56 or 6x42 will shoot you deer. Probably many millions of deer have met their makers via a fixed power scope in fact.

If you want versatile though or something you won’t be swapping out in a few years when your shooting career changes track go variable. Modern variable scope transmit just as much light as older design fixed ones and they give you that flexibility that fixed don’t I am afraid. I like 2.5-15xXX or similar but that is my personal preference many others will have theirs but that kind of mag range allows for all the below:-

For example woodland stalking walk around in summer on 4 or 6 times to give you wide FOV, but have the option to crank it up if you want to pick out a gap in brambles for a roe or muntjac shot. Or drop it down to 2.5 say to get max FOV and track that roe buck who is charging around in the rut.

On the hill again aquire your target on 6 or 8 times and if you have time crank it up to place your shot exactly where you want it. Fixed scopes tend to have thicker reticles when compare to variable scopes.

Variables in the 2.5-15 or similar range will have side parallax allowing you to buy a cheap pard and start foxing or shoot boar etc.

In Europe people even use 2.5-15 type scope for driven hunting at minimum mag (although if you are going to that kind of expense probably a red dot or 1-6 might be an investment).

I have never seen a fixed scope with ballistic turrets (standby for someone who has though), meaning you can’t go to a range and start leaning the art of dialing in at range. Or at least not without a zeroing session before going home.

Downsides to varaible scopes in the interests of fairness.

With red dots, variable mag and ballistic turrets going on there is allot of knobs and buttons to play with. I have seen many a guy loose a deer because he was on a silly mag range to start with or because he wanted to dial in the shot on a 130 yard deer.

Red dots can be left too brights and basically trash someone’s night vision.

A fixed scope is going to be more robust because it’s got less moving parts. I would imagine in fact you could use an S&B 8x56 for humane dispatch and it wouldn’t loose zero.

I am afraid though that a varaible for £300 isn’t going to to give you your premium glass fix. So maybe look middle tier second hand Delta or GPO or Hawke (Sidewinder or better though). You will need to add £200 ish to your budget but as you don’t have an FAC yet and the waiting time is generally 6-18 months I guess you can save. It will be worth it though as you will get more use and keep said scope longer.

I will now take cover as the fixed mag boys prepare their artillery.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out, great advice and much appreciated!

 

[Navarone]

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. I have shot numerous deer at last knockings when I have been out with stalkers with lesser scopes who couldn't see the deer clearly and turned down the shot. If I'm being paid to stalk, I have spent time and fuel driving to an area. I want to maximise my chances by not quiting earlier than the law allows. That last 10 minutes is important to me anyway. If I'm sat up a seat I can look down rides and know that I'm not going to hit a stray walker!
Target shooting is usually done in very good light conditions so the glass quality is less important I'm sure. However the OP is talking about hunting not target shooting.

Agree with both of you. It depends a bit what brings you joy as well doesn’t It. For example I like and am interested in classic looking rifles and the history of it all to a certain extent and I don’t think I’d ever whack a pard on the top of a mauser 98 or whatever but on the flip side if your number one aim is humane dispatch of deer as your job or in a cull etc then clearly you’d probably have a synthetic stock tikka outfit with nv etc etc to shoot as much as possible. Neither is wrong, classic vintage euro fixed mag and walnut or synthetic tikka with all the add ons, mod etc etc but depends what you want out of it all…

 

[Navarone]

Agree with both of you. It depends a bit what brings you joy as well doesn’t It. For example I like and am interested in classic looking rifles and the history of it all to a certain extent and I don’t think I’d ever whack a pard on the top of a mauser 98 or whatever but on the flip side if your number one aim is humane dispatch of deer as your job or in a cull etc then clearly you’d probably have a synthetic stock tikka outfit with nv etc etc to shoot as much as possible. Neither is wrong, classic vintage euro fixed mag and walnut or synthetic tikka with all the add ons, mod etc etc but depends what you want out of it all…

sorry this was meant to include nun_hunters post as well

 

[Hornet]

Don't discount Meopta, excellent glass for the money, a nice 7x50 should be in your budget.

 

[User00040]

Really good advice, thank you. I’ll have a look at the bushnell. What you have described above is pretty much the journey I’m hoping to go on over the next few years…

Another vote for the Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x44

Side focus down to 10 meters is essential if you want to stick a PARD007 on, which will outperform any Eurotrash scope

 

[baguio]

I agree to some extent, especially with you being paid to shoot deer or having specific targets to achieve, then those last 10 minutes are important.

But from personal experience I would say if those last 10 minutes do indeed make all the difference then you'd be better off with a £250 NV add-on that will give you those 10 minutes and into complete darkness and can be used well with a cheaper scope in the first place. Team that with a thermal spotter and you can shoot 24hrs a day, shooting deer every possible minute of legal time and beyond that for pest control.

I think the price and availability of electronic technology is now making top end European glass less appealing and dare I say it obsolete in a lot of scenarios. The days of justifying spending an extra £500 or £1000 on a scope because it gives you 10-15 minutes more than another scope are numbered. "Ah but the customer service is legendary I hear you say" which it is, but Vortex beats it and although the glass may not be as bright in the last few minutes of an evening it doesn't really matter if you've gone down the NV and Spotter route.

A Pard DS35 will let you shoot 24hrs a day, has a built in range finder and BC calculator and still costs less new than a decent secondhand variable European scope.

You're of course not wrong and a NV or thermal add on isn't far away.

 

[TringSaint]

If you're happy then that's fine but I can guarrantee you that your £350 Rudolph is not the same in low light as premium CIRO £2500 scope . It just isn't!

No, it probably isn’t, but is the 2.5k scope guaranteed to be over 7 times better? I don’t think so.

I have shot deer in very low light with all of my scopes without issue. Any darker then I wouldn’t have been able to see where I was going - not sure that shooting in such conditions is safe unless you are lamping.

 

[zerovarm]

The world of scopes is a mad place, everyone will have an opinion.You've dictated a budget but without knowing specifically what you want to do with the rifle you mount it on it's impossible to advise. Now even before budget my first priority when choosing a new scope is "what do I want to do with the rifle".

 

[baguio]

No, it probably isn’t, but is the 2.5k scope guaranteed to be over 7 times better? I don’t think so.

I have shot deer in very low light with all of my scopes without issue. Any darker then I wouldn’t have been able to see where I was going - not sure that shooting in such conditions is safe unless you are lamping.

Did anyone ever suggest that a £2.5k scope is 7 times better? What a strange thing to say. I can guarantee that it will be 7 minutes better though! As for suggesting that anyone shooting deer later than you do is unsafe, well that really is silly talk!

 

[25 Sharps]

OP mentioned £300 as a pricepoint - hence the suggestion of the 6500.

OP talked about a certain price so the Bushnell is a compromise compared to others but will do a job at that price especially if they are looking for it to cover different functions on a .243.

An older German fixed mag would be ideal if it's just for deer, but if to be used for other uses, the Bushnell is a potential compromise.

I get where you’re coming from but the OP does t have an FAC and does want to try premium glass, the bushnell just isn’t that and won’t give him any impression of what premium glass looks like. The bushnell is no better than a top end Hawke in all honesty.

Better off to save up and see the real step up that good glass gives rather than compromise in my opinion.

I was at the same place some years ago, stalked with Hawke scopes and had Hawke/mtc/ Nikko scopes on my rimmies.

Too many missed opportunities in poor light brought me over to the dark side of good European glass. It is notably better, meopta is good for entry level particularly in a fixed scope but not up there with Zeiss, S&B, swaro etc.

Other than an older fixed 6x42 or 8x56 from the above the premium glass experience, nothing wrong with those I have a zeiss 8x56 on my 25 that I absolutely love. But they really are stalking scopes through and through, that shine in low light, not on a team he or shooting bunnies in the day.

 

[25 Sharps]

I don’t shoot from highseats so I’m always at ground level on open ground and all of my perms have footpaths running through them, so I always want to see what is around. Still I am out pre-dawn and will be looking to take deer at first light and have never had any issue with any of my ‘middle of the road’ scopes.

My only woodland gun has a 2.5-15 mag Rudolph in it which is super in low light and was £350 new iirc.

Most of my ground is similar to yours, apart from one spot on where I sit in a seat, I only sit on seats when invited elsewhere. Point is just because you don’t do it it doesn’t mean others don’t want or need to.

If you’ve not used top end glass in a low light situation, against your scopes, you won’t really understand the difference.

As above, you 100% need to know what is there, where you are shooting, thermal allows you to do that in low light and top end scopes are often brighter than what you see with the naked eye anyway.

Most people who say top end glass isn’t worth the money haven’t really used it or don’t stalk in situations where it’s useful.

 

[Navarone]

I get where you’re coming from but the OP does t have an FAC and does want to try premium glass, the bushnell just isn’t that and won’t give him any impression of what premium glass looks like. The bushnell is no better than a top end Hawke in all honesty.

Better off to save up and see the real step up that good glass gives rather than compromise in my opinion.

I was at the same place some years ago, stalked with Hawke scopes and had Hawke/mtc/ Nikko scopes on my rimmies.

Too many missed opportunities in poor light brought me over to the dark side of good European glass. It is notably better, meopta is good for entry level particularly in a fixed scope but not up there with Zeiss, S&B, swaro etc.

Other than an older fixed 6x42 or 8x56 from the above the premium glass experience, nothing wrong with those I have a zeiss 8x56 on my 25 that I absolutely love. But they really are stalking scopes through and through, that shine in low light, not on a team he or shooting bunnies in the day.

This pretty much sums it up. I know I don’t need high end glass but I’d like to try it and therefore what should I try…

 

[25 Sharps]

I get where you’re coming from but the OP does t have an FAC and does want to try premium glass, the bushnell just isn’t that and won’t give him any impression of what premium glass looks like. The bushnell is no better than a top end Hawke in all honesty.

Better off to save up and see the real step up that good glass gives rather than compromise in my opinion.

I was at the same place some years ago, stalked with Hawke scopes and had Hawke/mtc/ Nikko scopes on my rimmies.

Too many missed opportunities in poor light brought me over to the dark side of good European glass. It is notably better, meopta is good for entry level particularly in a fixed scope but not up there with Zeiss, S&B, swaro etc.

Other than an older fixed 6x42 or 8x56 from the above the premium glass experience, nothing wrong with those I have a zeiss 8x56 on my 25 that I absolutely love. But they really are stalking scopes through and through, that shine in low light, not on a team he or shooting bunnies in the day.

*not on a range. Bloody phone!!

 

[25 Sharps]

This pretty much sums it up. I know I don’t need high end glass but I’d like to try it and therefore what should I try…

With your budget you only really have the option of second hand 6x42 or 8x 56 Schmidt / swaro / zeiss.

If going on an air rifle to shoot fine targets just make sure you get one with a fine reticle.

 

[Cyres]

Meopta v underrated. Optic warehouse has great deals on them you may have to stretch your budget
If I was you I would buy a Delta Titanium optically neigh on as good as any Zeiss Schmit and alike. It will do all you need and more and is compatible with NV add ons.
D

 

[TringSaint]

Most of my ground is similar to yours, apart from one spot on where I sit in a seat, I only sit on seats when invited elsewhere. Point is just because you don’t do it it doesn’t mean others don’t want or need to.

If you’ve not used top end glass in a low light situation, against your scopes, you won’t really understand the difference.

As above, you 100% need to know what is there, where you are shooting, thermal allows you to do that in low light and top end scopes are often brighter than what you see with the naked eye anyway.

Most people who say top end glass isn’t worth the money haven’t really used it or don’t stalk in situations where it’s useful.

Indeed, some may see the value. I don’t, but that is just a personal choice. Just like I don’t use thermal, simply because I think it takes the sporting fairness away and tips the balance too much in my favour, but I totally get why others use it.