Many scopes have parallax adjustment.
First foray into ‘premium’ scopes? What would be good?
- Thread starter Navarone
- Start date
You can. But not sure I’d be wanting to in an older scope, just in case it went wrong.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
But not on most fixed mag scopes.
Unless there is a very good reason for a fixed mag scope, I would always opt for a variable mag as it gives you more options.
Zoom in for extra distance or to pick a point of aim more accurately on a smaller target, or zoom out if you are in closer proximity to quarry or in low light.
Same goes for illuminated reticules - I use mine very occasionally, but I have the facility (so long as I haven’t left it on and drained the battery which is my usual error) when I need it.
Not saying fixed mag scopes are wrong, but maybe more designed for specific purposes.
Not really what you want to hear but would probably be thinking of a bushnell elite 2.5-?x50 or 56 with side parallax which can be bought used for around £300 but people tend to keep them which would serve well on any rifle and a good compromise scope.
If later down the line you buy a foxing rifle will also serve you well and they have killed many deer both sides of pond.
If you start stalking worth considering a dedicated stalking rifle and scope and for around £300 you should be able to find a nice used German scope x6 or x8 made for the very job, except no substitutes imo
If later down the line you buy a foxing rifle will also serve you well and they have killed many deer both sides of pond.
If you start stalking worth considering a dedicated stalking rifle and scope and for around £300 you should be able to find a nice used German scope x6 or x8 made for the very job, except no substitutes imo
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
Urrrr, because it says ‘made in Japan’ on the scope?
Why do you have such an issue in accepting that my choice of rifle scope might actually be good? Why does this vex you so?
You have spent ages arguing the toss with me, not about what is the best solution for the OP, but instead about my choices.
I have shot rifles with very expensive glass on it and, yes, the optical clarity is better than on my scopes, but not so much better as to offset the huge difference in cost.
My preference is to put good quality mid range scopes on my rifles because they perfectly meet my needs, and to use the spare money for other things that I personally feel are of greater value to me.
So am I allowed to have an opinion and make my own choices? Or should I simply just become a sheep and follow the crowd in paying exorbitant sums of cash for premium branded goods?
Anyhow, I will be out later on with my lovely rifle, custom made ammo and crappy scope and am sure to have a great time.
Enjoy
I use a Rudolph 6-24x50 on my .22lr, very good optics and nice reticle, I’d be happy with it on any of my rifles. Very similar to the Sightron S3, maybe optically slightly better, with nicer turrets. I own 2 S3s as well.
No.
Some £2-3k scopes are junk, won't track or hold zero.
People who buy based on a name are the prey of marketing departments.
Rifle Scope Field Evaluations
rokslide.com
What on earth are you buying an £800 delta for when a £350 reindeer is just as good. Is it 2x as good as the reindeer? If not why buy it??
You have no knowledge of using high end glass and by the sounds of it little experience in shooting in the situations where it is of benefit. So you don’t really have a clue but have the opinion that people just have high end glass for bragging rights.
No, I don't often agree with @TringSaint (have them on ignore, actually), but having either owned or frequently used over £20k worth of rifle scopes, he is right.
Swarovski dS- Would not hold zero to save it's life. Terrible light transmission, falwed system. 40mm tube is idocy.
Ziess V8 2.5-20 - Poor resolution and depth of field/contrast, illumination broke, also questionable tracking. Stupid dial system which is neither Mils nor MOA. 36mm tube is stupid (new models cut down to 30mm!) One of the few scopes still made by Ziess in Germany, most new ones are farmed out to Japan.
S&B 5-20 Ultra Short - Unremarkable glass compared to a Klassik/Precision Hunter, zero stop was buggered out of the box. Only thing that impressed me was S&B turnaround time. Did not like the 34mm tube. Paying £300 for a 'service' is ludicrous, along with their new PM2 pricing structure (30-40% increase?)
Nightforce NXS 5.5-20x56 - So-so glass, objective lens housing unscrewed with the sunshade
but still worked well, tracked and held zero. Would maybe stump up £1k if a 3.5-15x50 F1 Mil Spec ever turned up for sale, but the bog standard SFP NXS are nothing to write home about. Not tried the ATAC-R yet but the weight is off-putting.Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 M3 - Light transmission is really really poor, worse than a modern Hawke. Eye relief is huge (main selling point) along with generous single turn elevation dial (nearly 60 MOA). Has held zero for me, very light scope. Got off an airgun user who should have sent it back to Leupold long ago. Came back with an updated reticle and illumination system (eyepiece) for nothing.
Have been very very impressed with Bushnell Elite 3200/6500 and Elite Tactical lines (LRHS). Both were quite expensive to buy at UK RRP but price dropped off on S/H market due to brand name.
Even the best glass in the world at last light will lose to a cheap Hawke AO with NV/Thermal add-on (many of which won't work with 'high end' glass).
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
At early first light and at late last light they come into their own....believe me!
schitt you have had a bad trot eh what. My own experience with a multitude but not all is vastly different
Have to disagree and sounds like you’re just unlucky!No, I don't often agree with @TringSaint (have them on ignore, actually), but having either owned or frequently used over £20k worth of rifle scopes, he is right.
Swarovski dS- Would not hold zero to save it's life. Terrible light transmission, falwed system. 40mm tube is idocy.
Ziess V8 2.5-20 - Poor resolution and depth of field/contrast, illumination broke, also questionable tracking. Stupid dial system which is neither Mils nor MOA. 36mm tube is stupid (new models cut down to 30mm!) One of the few scopes still made by Ziess in Germany, most new ones are farmed out to Japan.
S&B 5-20 Ultra Short - Unremarkable glass compared to a Klassik/Precision Hunter, zero stop was buggered out of the box. Only thing that impressed me was S&B turnaround time. Did not like the 34mm tube. Paying £300 for a 'service' is ludicrous, along with their new PM2 pricing structure (30-40% increase?)
Nightforce NXS 5.5-20x56 - So-so glass, objective lens housing unscrewed with the sunshade
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 M3 - Light transmission is really really poor, worse than a modern Hawke. Eye relief is huge (main selling point) along with generous single turn elevation dial (nearly 60 MOA). Has held zero for me, very light scope. Got off an airgun user who should have sent it back to Leupold long ago. Came back with an updated reticle and illumination system (eyepiece) for nothing.
Have been very very impressed with Bushnell Elite 3200/6500 and Elite Tactical lines (LRHS). Both were quite expensive to buy at UK RRP but price dropped off on S/H market due to brand name.
Even the best glass in the world at last light will lose to a cheap Hawke AO with NV/Thermal add-on (many of which won't work with 'high end' glass).
Have owned 2 bushnell elite 6500s and sold them both, mediocre glass. I have owned 2 of the DMR version of the above and still own one which I use for target only but glass is unremarkable. As stated above depending on conditions my T96 buys me 5-10 minutes of shootable sight picture over my buddy’s 4-16x50 elite at last light.
Swaro glass is incredible to my eye, x5i was sharp enough to my eye to see creases in paper at 1000 yards. Can’t comment on holding zero but the owner of the scope had no issue with holding zero or tracking. I know plenty in the club and stalking buddies who stalk with swaro with no issues. Zeiss victory glass is on a par.
Schmidt t96 and klassic on my stalking rifles are solid, great glass in low light track and hold zero perfectly although I don’t like the lack of being able to wind down the elevation on the t96.
Zeiss diatal 8x56 on my 25-45 is lovely glass, holds zero and works to about 45 minutes after legal sunset on a clear night in the open.
Even the meopta Artemis that was on my 25 before was a loverly scope, very good low light performance and held zero well, all for £120!
I personally would consider leupold and night force mid range scopes, better for target than stalking. Kahles glass is good but doesn’t suit my eye particularly well, well made scopes though.
As for NV it doesn’t sit right with me and only buys 15 to 20 minutes over good glass anyway.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Very.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
Tbh, I’ve never had any issue at first or last light. Always been able to shoot what and when I wanted to.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
Occasionally I don’t talk b@ll@cks!!No, I don't often agree with @TringSaint (have them on ignore, actually), but having either owned or frequently used over £20k worth of rifle scopes, he is right.
Swarovski dS- Would not hold zero to save it's life. Terrible light transmission, falwed system. 40mm tube is idocy.
Ziess V8 2.5-20 - Poor resolution and depth of field/contrast, illumination broke, also questionable tracking. Stupid dial system which is neither Mils nor MOA. 36mm tube is stupid (new models cut down to 30mm!) One of the few scopes still made by Ziess in Germany, most new ones are farmed out to Japan.
S&B 5-20 Ultra Short - Unremarkable glass compared to a Klassik/Precision Hunter, zero stop was buggered out of the box. Only thing that impressed me was S&B turnaround time. Did not like the 34mm tube. Paying £300 for a 'service' is ludicrous, along with their new PM2 pricing structure (30-40% increase?)
Nightforce NXS 5.5-20x56 - So-so glass, objective lens housing unscrewed with the sunshade
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 M3 - Light transmission is really really poor, worse than a modern Hawke. Eye relief is huge (main selling point) along with generous single turn elevation dial (nearly 60 MOA). Has held zero for me, very light scope. Got off an airgun user who should have sent it back to Leupold long ago. Came back with an updated reticle and illumination system (eyepiece) for nothing.
Have been very very impressed with Bushnell Elite 3200/6500 and Elite Tactical lines (LRHS). Both were quite expensive to buy at UK RRP but price dropped off on S/H market due to brand name.
Even the best glass in the world at last light will lose to a cheap Hawke AO with NV/Thermal add-on (many of which won't work with 'high end' glass).
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I have had plenty of hunters alongside at those times and they they see what the value is when handed the better quality gear after retiring their own 'for not being able to see'
I think the real threat to Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica and S&B etc isn’t cheap/middle range scopes from China and Japan it’s the next generation of day/night 30mm tubed NV scopes. The current offerings from Pulsar, HIk etc have their place but they don’t give you the daytime image that glass can. Give it a generation or two though and I think suddenly that gap will close. Glass has pretty much reached the pinnacle of development now and any improvements are minor and user/marketing subjective at best. Give the NV boys a bit of time though and some R&D money and I think we will start to get high light gathering OLED quality day and night digital images that will quality start to gradually make glass an option rather than an necessity.
I would imagine this is a subject that has been discussed in several German board rooms already. 3 of the big German names already make thermal stuff that supplements their glass products, if they decide to make a direct competition digital product that will indicate the future of the scope market I think. This is something we will probably see in the medium term future as well.
I would imagine this is a subject that has been discussed in several German board rooms already. 3 of the big German names already make thermal stuff that supplements their glass products, if they decide to make a direct competition digital product that will indicate the future of the scope market I think. This is something we will probably see in the medium term future as well.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
If any on the boards were to ignore the threat of 'new' then they the manufacturers only have to be reminded of what happened at Kodak.
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Owned many scopes over the past 3 decades and the only one I've held onto all that time is my Swarovski 8x50 because of it's great build quality, light weight and slim line look. It's never lost zero including the 3hr trip in the cuddy of a small fishing boat from Ballycastle to Islay in a force 7 sea being bounced between the deck and roof the entire journey. It's got no bells and whistles just fantastic light gathering crystal clear glass hence no faffing about just point and shoot. For your £300 you'd possibly get a mint one 2nd hand.
Muntybuck5803
Well-Known Member
I’m actually inclined to agree here and with a number of other comments on this thread.No, I don't often agree with @TringSaint (have them on ignore, actually), but having either owned or frequently used over £20k worth of rifle scopes, he is right.
Swarovski dS- Would not hold zero to save it's life. Terrible light transmission, falwed system. 40mm tube is idocy.
Ziess V8 2.5-20 - Poor resolution and depth of field/contrast, illumination broke, also questionable tracking. Stupid dial system which is neither Mils nor MOA. 36mm tube is stupid (new models cut down to 30mm!) One of the few scopes still made by Ziess in Germany, most new ones are farmed out to Japan.
S&B 5-20 Ultra Short - Unremarkable glass compared to a Klassik/Precision Hunter, zero stop was buggered out of the box. Only thing that impressed me was S&B turnaround time. Did not like the 34mm tube. Paying £300 for a 'service' is ludicrous, along with their new PM2 pricing structure (30-40% increase?)
Nightforce NXS 5.5-20x56 - So-so glass, objective lens housing unscrewed with the sunshade
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 M3 - Light transmission is really really poor, worse than a modern Hawke. Eye relief is huge (main selling point) along with generous single turn elevation dial (nearly 60 MOA). Has held zero for me, very light scope. Got off an airgun user who should have sent it back to Leupold long ago. Came back with an updated reticle and illumination system (eyepiece) for nothing.
Have been very very impressed with Bushnell Elite 3200/6500 and Elite Tactical lines (LRHS). Both were quite expensive to buy at UK RRP but price dropped off on S/H market due to brand name.
Even the best glass in the world at last light will lose to a cheap Hawke AO with NV/Thermal add-on (many of which won't work with 'high end' glass).
My back story of high end scopes has been hit and miss too.
I’ve sold on all my high end S&Bs after having a few QC issues with their newer ones. Tried to buy two separate 5-25x56s from Sporting services that both had issues (one had a spec inside, the other had illumination issues) Both were returned and swapped for a Kahles K624 and K525 by Greame at SS with awesome service I should add. I’ve also had good experiences with older high end S&Bs through work. However it did sour my experience of expensive scopes.
As a result I’ve bought a couple of Bushnell scopes on @caberslash recommendation and I have to say I’m impressed. I’ve now got an LRHS and an LRTS which I’ve started using. Much cheaper than top tier but I’m happy with them so far.
They are definitely not as good as top tier but they are more than good enough for the prices I’ve paid (both essentially brand new for less than £1000 combined).
As a closing statement it’s also worth noting that there isn’t really any news here. It’s the law of diminishing returns as it always has been, it just seems that the ‘budget’ brands have come on leaps and bounds in recent years.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
I think that in yesteryear the ‘premium’ brands were premium in all facets. But nowadays everything is built to a price and therein lies the issue - as if your brand attracts a price inflation and you need to retain your healthy profit margin, but you need to hold an rrp then the only option is to drop the cost of production and that means lower quality parts.
Buy an unknown or lesser known brand then the price inflation is reduced to a degree so the proportion of material cost to rrp is higher.
There is also one additional factor that no one is considering and that is your eyesight. I am nearly 50 but don’t need glasses and have always had good night vision (ate my carrots as a boy!!) so maybe the reason why I and others are able to use lower ‘quality’ scopes without issue is because our sight is better.
Who knows!!
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