Lead Ban- UK Reach 2nd Consultation

[tim@tcs]

Yes perhaps the UK Government could have not instructed the HSE the review lead in ammunition, but it did, and here we are two years later nearing the end of that review. In fact the review is behind schedule thanks to the less than 3,000 people that responded to last year's HSE consultation. Hopefully we can get more responses this time? I hope you will be amongst those responding to the current and final consultation that ends on 10 December.

I certainly have responded but I have very little faith in our governments or civil servants

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Conor, on a positive note I think you deserve credit for engaging in relying to posts and on a Sunday, no other shooting organisation has done likewise as far as I know.

Thank you, and other BASC staff have also been working over the weekend at events both day and evenings. And this evening we also had a technical issue with our website going down, which was outside our control, but in any case resolved by our web team. Credit to them all.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

So why did Harradine get up at the Cheltenham Wildfowling conference and say he had used both lead and steel and couldn't tell the difference? Perhaps he missed with everything!

When was the Cheltenham Wildfowling conference? Have you ever asked him yourself in all these years, I think you ask the same question on SD every few years. Have you tried steel shot? Also, I am not sure what that has to do with BASC fighting lead ban proposals since the 1980s.

 

[timbrayford]

That is definitely not the case, BASC has been fighting lead ban proposals since the 1980s.

How exactly do you square that with John Swift's conduct both on the LAG and his contribution to Mark Avery's blog? Surely with his long standing position as CEO of BASC he must have realised that his personal opinions would be exceptionally damaging to the interests of the shooting community and his elevation to an honorary life membership of BASC would appear to be an official endorsement by the BASC leadership of his views?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I certainly have responded but I have very little faith in our governments or civil servants

Thank you. I know what you mean, albeit the HSE has to take account of every response through that online response form. In any case, BASC has stated since the HSE lead in ammunition review started in March 2021, that if we have concerns that the resulting legislative proposals are disproportionate and will damage shooting, we will lobby for them to be revised. A recent example of that in practice is the recent draft Bill proposing a ban on the import of hunting trophies.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

How exactly do you square that with John Swift's conduct both on the LAG and his contribution to Mark Avery's blog? Surely with his long standing position as CEO of BASC he must have realised that his personal opinions would be exceptionally damaging to the interests of the shooting community and his elevation to an honorary life membership of BASC would appear to be an official endorsement by the BASC leadership of his views?

BASC is opposed to the HSE lead ban proposals.

 

[enfieldspares]

Nearly two pages of replies by the BASC correspondent and yet, still, no public reply as t why the New Zealand model was considered by BASC as unsuitable for the UK?

 

[StephenToast]

Nearly two pages of replies by the BASC correspondent and yet, still, no public reply as t why the New Zealand model was considered by BASC as unsuitable for the UK?

It's broadly similar to the lead ban that we currently have in England for shooting over wetlands' SSSI's and waterfowl species for the last 20+ years.

Unfortunately the shooting community has repeatedly proven it can't be trusted to follow the law and people still persist to use lead in these circumstances which I am sure has led to the proposal for further restrictions.

 

[Liveonce]

It's broadly similar to the lead ban that we currently have in England for shooting over wetlands' SSSI's and waterfowl species for the last 20+ years.

Unfortunately the shooting community has repeatedly proven it can't be trusted to follow the law and people still persist to use lead in these circumstances which I am sure has led to the proposal for further restrictions.

Which is why lead for clay pigeon shooting will be untenable, plus nearly four years into the voluntary transition and few in reality have moved to non-toxic shot. The HSE are not blind.

 

[tim@tcs]

Unfortunately the shooting community has repeatedly proven it can't be trusted to follow the law and people still persist to use lead in these circumstances which I am sure has led to the proposal for further restrictions.

Have you any evidence that the shooting community has ignored the badly thought out and poorly written with no scientific evidence rules on non toxic over wetlands?

 

[AGR]

Not when loaded and bismuth factory shell prices are not all about bismuth metal price , rather about supply and demand. Bismuth is actually used thrown into galvanising tanks to sink the dross, i doubt the galvanisers pay anything like what the cartridge makers need to charge for the niche market it is . Also those guns that only can shoot bismuth are rare and are not the tool you might take on a big numbers day either, light low pressure steel should work just fine

Have you shot with bismuth enough to know whether it has sufficient penetration to kill cleanly?
We tried (when it first became available),shooting into telephone directories to compare penetration with the same size lead shot. I don't remember the results exactly, but the bismuth did not impress.

 

[JTO]

When was the Cheltenham Wildfowling conference?

Just before the wildfowling lead ban.

 

[JTO]

Have you ever asked him yourself in all these years,

Is there a need when he said it in front of several hundred people?
The message from the DTI chap that day was that the ban was going ahead no matter what BASC thought and said.

 

[JTO]

. Have you tried steel shot?

Of course, I have to. I bought a 10-bore for it.

 

[StephenToast]

Have you any evidence that the shooting community has ignored the badly thought out and poorly written with no scientific evidence rules on non toxic over wetlands?

Are you for real?

 

[terrier1]

Which is why lead for clay pigeon shooting will be untenable, plus nearly four years into the voluntary transition and few in reality have moved to non-toxic shot. The HSE are not blind.

Yes but the big point is I and many other people didn't sign up for a VOLUNTARY BAN AND WAS NOT CONSULT ON THAT DECISION.

 

[Bowland blades]

Have you shot with bismuth enough to know whether it has sufficient penetration to kill cleanly?
We tried (when it first became available),shooting into telephone directories to compare penetration with the same size lead shot. I don't remember the results exactly, but the bismuth did not impress.

And steel was junk when it first came out, that's just how these things go

 

[Nimrod1960]

Been shooting steel 3&4’s on phaesants for three seasons now, no problem unless you try to shoot something so high that you will probably wound with lead as well.

If the ultra high bird dick swingers stop trying to “out barrel length” each other the majority of shooting can just crack on.

As for ignoring the wetlands etc ban, we have all seen, dare say even done the “I have a couple of bismuth in my pocket, just in case” trick.

I had the distinctly poor experience of attending a duck slaughter near Bletchley Park a few years ago (Invite was Pheasant) . By the forth drive I put the gun away - bloody awefull. Point being nobody had any non lead and the “bag” disappeared in French reg vans straight to the dinning table of Paris. I expect BREXIT has buggered that so every cloud eh.

 

[tim@tcs]

Are you for real?

Fair comment but we are expected to believe it’s science behind the ban not anti politics
I have only used steel or bismuth shot when clearing Canada geese from golf courses, none of my friends I know use lead where it isn’t allowed and I’ve yet to hear or see any arrests or prosecutions for this!

 

[Bowland blades]

Fair comment but we are expected to believe it’s science behind the ban not anti politics
I have only used steel or bismuth shot when clearing Canada geese from golf courses, none of my friends I know use lead where it isn’t allowed and I’ve yet to hear or see any arrests or prosecutions for this!

in England and Wales you haven't been able to shoot waterfowl with lead for many years full stop no matter where they are . There have certainly been prosecutions and licences revoked for using lead , its normally a second offence to something else stupid but it has certainly occurred. its incredibly rare to not have your gun licence removed if caught . I have been checked twice once because i shot a really high goose killing it stone dead in the air ( luck played a good part ) by a club bailiff and once by a copper .