Shooting from main road in Scotland.

[bigkimbo]

I got called out by the police on Monday morning to dispatch a red hind that had been hit on the road. I attended and dispatched the deer.

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales, makes it an offence to discharge, without lawful authority or excuse, any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway (which consists of or comprises a carriageway) if in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

In Scotland, the Highways Act does not apply but the offence of “reckless endangerment” exists under common law.

I have night shooting permission on the adjacent land however the only way to do it is from the main road. I phoned and told the sergeant that i was planning to do this and he told me I couldn't shoot from the carriageway as I didn't have the landowners permission, Transport Scotland.

Basc advice seems to contradict the information from police scotland.

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

 

[VSS]

I got called out by the police on Monday morning to dispatch a red hind that had been hit on the road. I attended and dispatched the deer.

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales, makes it an offence to discharge, without lawful authority or excuse, any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway (which consists of or comprises a carriageway) if in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

In Scotland, the Highways Act does not apply but the offence of “reckless endangerment” exists under common law.

I have night shooting permission on the adjacent land however the only way to do it is from the main road. I phoned and told the sergeant that i was planning to do this and he told me I couldn't shoot from the carriageway as I didn't have the landowners permission, Transport Scotland.

Basc advice seems to contradict the information from police scotland.

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

I am not certain, but I think what the police have told you is incorrect.

 

[NullMac]

Nae idea

 

[.25-06]

You mention transport scotland, they look after the trunk roads which are main roads. Only specified companies/ people are authorised to work on trunk roads. A reasonable person would follow the seargents advice and avoid a situation where you have to explain shooting from a trunk road. You have your night shooting permission, so go to your ground and use it.

 

[enfieldspares]

The question would be who owns the ground over which the road passes. I know that in England if you drop a dead pheasant on a public road it becomes the property of the local council. In England game becomes the property of whosever land it falls dead. As to Scotland I have no idea. But whilst this "Transport Scotland" may have the responsibility to maintain the road it doesn't mean that they own the land over which it runs? It is from that person that you need to enquire?

 

[bigkimbo]

You mention transport scotland, they look after the trunk roads which are main roads. Only specified companies/ people are authorised to work on trunk roads. A reasonable person would follow the seargents advice and avoid a situation where you have to explain shooting from a trunk road. You have your night shooting permission, so go to your ground and use it.

A reasonable person would also want to prevent further RTA and serious accidents, you have no idea of the ground.
I asked for legal advice, your comments are not useful.

 

[.25-06]

Those comments may not be what you want to hear but they would not be useful. If the police are called to you shooting off a trunk road you will not be holding your firearm at the end of the conversation, it is possible you could get it back after a period of time but as your conversation with the police alludes they wont support it. Public safety trumps you shooting a deer.

Shooting from the A9 at Dunkeld had both police and transport scotland input before it happened together with a risk assessment big enough to stop paper production at andrex.

 

[Dave_45]

I wouldn't be arguing with the police, even if you suspect they are wrong , go and get it in writing ,have the discussion then proceed from there.

 

[slider]

In Scotland you can shoot from a highway, but an offence is committed under common law if anyone is disturbed or inconvenienced.

 

[willie_gunn]

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

You are asking the type of question where an incorrect answer could very well jeopardise your FAC and even your freedom.

If you want legal expertise and definitive advice then I’d suggest you give BASC, SACS, or a specialist solicitor familiar with Firearms Law in Scotland a call and pursue this with them. They should be able to provide you with a written answer that you can present to Police Scotland should you wish to argue with them about a specific point of law.

What you’ll get here is opinion, both informed and otherwise. The fact that such opinions are free is because those offering them will bear no responsibility should events unfortunately go t*ts up for you. They will all, however, be more than happy to then freely quote your case in the future should the outcome provide us with some useful definitive case law.

If you still consider legal advice here a good thing, consider how much credence a Chief Constable or a judge (even one in a court operating under Scottish law) is going to give to evidence garnered from a website whose anonymous members operate under such names as willie_gunn and bigkimbo!

 

[VSS]

In Scotland you can shoot from a highway, but an offence is committed under common law if anyone is disturbed or inconvenienced.

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[bigkimbo]

I am not certain, but I think what the police have told you is incorre

You are asking the type of question where an incorrect answer could very well jeopardise your FAC and even your freedom.

If you want legal expertise and definitive advice then I’d suggest you give BASC, SACS, or a specialist solicitor familiar with Firearms Law in Scotland a call and pursue this with them. They should be able to provide you with a written answer that you can present to Police Scotland should you wish to argue with them about a specific point of law.

What you’ll get here is opinion, both informed and otherwise. The fact that such opinions are free is because those offering them will bear no responsibility should events unfortunately go t*ts up for you. They will all, however, be more than happy to then freely quote your case in the future should the outcome provide us with some useful definitive case law.

If you still consider legal advice here a good thing, consider how much credence a Chief Constable or a judge (even one in a court operating under Scottish law) is going to give to evidence garnered from a website whose anonymous members operate under such names as willie_gunn and bigkimb

Couldn't agree more on what you say.

The quote I put on about the highways act is from BASC best practice on night shooting and it if for that reason I asked here if there was any legal experts to offer definitive advice.

 

[tim@tcs]

Basc advice seems to contradict the information from police scotland.

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regardless of what the law says in writing if there have been no prosecutions over this then there are no established precedents in case law either way
If you can find out then please share with us

 

[Heym SR20]

Most of the answers are in here

Humane dispatch - Best Practice Guidance

Aim This guide aims to provide advice on the most appropriate procedures for the humane dispatch of injured deer. Legal issues Section 25 of the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 exempts individuals from being guilty of any offences involving the taking or killing of deer at any time if it is done for...

bestpracticeguides.org.uk

 

[Mike 01]

Little known tedious fact: there is no such thing as a "highway" in Scotland, only a road, in terms of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984. So anything referring to firearms and highways in Scotland should be carefully checked.

 

[Rake Aboot]

In Scotland you can shoot from a highway, but an offence is committed under common law if anyone is disturbed or inconvenienced.

This.
And even then I’m not sure it’s an offence to inconvenience anyone.

God know I do it almost every time I’m out with a rifle.

 

[slider]

This.
And even then I’m not sure it’s an offence to inconvenience anyone.

God know I do it almost every time I’m out with a rifle.

I paraphrased a little, there isn't an offence of inconvenience as such but there are common law offences of 'culpable and reckless
conduct' and 'reckless endangerment'

 

[JTO]

If it's a 'main' road, the land it stands on may have been bought by the highway authority, if not, the adjoining landowner's boundary is the centre of the road.

 

[Pedro]

I haven't the foggiest. But blasting away on Sauchiehall Street is probably a no no.

 

[Loki]

Hi

Re#18

The adjacent Landowner, in many cases, owns the 'sub-soil', but 'Highway Rights' overide this between highway boundaries (usually some form of boundary between the Highway and the Private Land. There can be verge, ditch, footway carriageway and similar other side between boundaries.
Once a Highway always a Highway, unless in limited cases due process (2 ways of doing this) called Stopping-Up is followed (for land that the Highway Authority deem not needed and therefore surplus) and handed over (note not sold).

L