.300 blackout or something different as a handy farm rifle.

https://Immersive-optics.com/
zanes said:
Lovely little rifle and cartridge, I'm very happy with my Howa Mini action in 7.62x39 as my 'light' centrefire for range use.

Am I right in recalling the CZs (and possibly the Ruger Ranch which also takes cheap mags) have the bonus of being bored for .309" bullets rather than the 'true to cartridge' .311" my Howa is? .309" bullets of course being much more available and in a bigger choice of types/weights.
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The Redding dies came with both 308 and 311 expanders and a note that stated whilst these are available it has been shown that firing 308 bullets in a 311 bore showed no decrease in accuracy and 311 bullets in a 308 bore showed no pressure signs. A friend has a custom built AIA 7.62x39 with a 308 barrel chambered to take 311 bullets and he shoots it happily in competitions!
 
KimE said:
I have a Tikkakoski m69 in 12g/222r with a selector for the trigger they are cheap now as most combination guns sold now have a bigger rifle cartridge.
Click to expand...

I had thoughts of a 243 and 12g- with two loads for a 243- a highly explosive ballistic tip and a lead free deer bullet. Can I ask how much the 222/12G combos sell for ?
 
tim@tcs said:
The Redding dies came with both 308 and 311 expanders and a note that stated whilst these are available it has been shown that firing 308 bullets in a 311 bore showed no decrease in accuracy and 311 bullets in a 308 bore showed no pressure signs. A friend has a custom built AIA 7.62x39 with a 308 barrel chambered to take 311 bullets and he shoots it happily in competitions!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this wasn't my experience with .308 lead bullets in mine- groups measured in feet at 100 yards! Since then I've found some sources for reasonably priced .311 FMJs which are fine for my target shooting but obviously wouldn't cut it for deer.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by '308 barrel chambered to take .311 bullets'? Even if the chamber has been renamed to 7.62x39 surely the bore diameter is still .309" as per the .308?
 
Smellydog said:
They did a 24 in 12g/ hornet. I had one, still a lump but very good. They also did one with a 30/30 up top. I don't think any were imported to the UK though.
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One of my hunting partners has one chambered in 30/30 - 20 gauge . It is a bit of a lump , but it's a handy unit to have in the tractor . I have a Savage 219 single shot chambered in 30/30 . It weighs about six pounds , points like your finger and shoots far better than it should . They were marketed as a cheap utility rifle when first introduced , but sell for a fair amount when available , which isn't often . I won't part with mine . It won't impress your friends , but it will take care of most things . I've had my eye out for a Baikal single shot chambered in 7.62 x 39 , a tough find these days . The main advantage in a Russian short is the price of ammo , it's about half the price of 30/30 around here .

AB
 
alberta boy said:
One of my hunting partners has one chambered in 30/30 - 20 gauge . It is a bit of a lump , but it's a handy unit to have in the tractor . I have a Savage 219 single shot chambered in 30/30 . It weighs about six pounds , points like your finger and shoots far better than it should . They were marketed as a cheap utility rifle when first introduced , but sell for a fair amount when available , which isn't often . I won't part with mine . It won't impress your friends , but it will take care of most things . I've had my eye out for a Baikal single shot chambered in 7.62 x 39 , a tough find these days . The main advantage in a Russian short is the price of ammo , it's about half the price of 30/30 around here .

AB
Click to expand...
Didn't Savage do a bolt action repeater also??
I understand 30/30 is very capable in a bolt or single shot. Pointy bullets and a throat job etc.

I've read the Baikal triggers are difficult it improve on. I've looked at the shot guns and think it should be ok to improve. Iirc the sear is HUGE!
 
zanes said:
Unfortunately this wasn't my experience with .308 lead bullets in mine- groups measured in feet at 100 yards! Since then I've found some sources for reasonably priced .311 FMJs which are fine for my target shooting but obviously wouldn't cut it for deer.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by '308 barrel chambered to take .311 bullets'? Even if the chamber has been renamed to 7.62x39 surely the bore diameter is still .309" as per the .308?
Click to expand...
The barrel was 308 and it was chambered to take a 311 bullet, what’s difficult to understand?
Cast lead is a fickle beast to tame and a whole rabbit hole I’m not going to look into and I usually load to a proven recipe for indoor use if I have to!
The sp and fmj are readily available and it can be just driven fast enough for deer legal but I tended to use mine on roe or fallow really close up in woodland.
311 is the bore diameter most commonly found in .303 and 7.62 Russian although there are plenty of variations in both. That’s why it’s common to find projectiles made in the USA as it’s a popular caliber for collecting and shooting (Russian) thankfully!
 
Smellydog said:
Didn't Savage do a bolt action repeater also??
I understand 30/30 is very capable in a bolt or single shot. Pointy bullets and a throat job etc.

I've read the Baikal triggers are difficult it improve on. I've looked at the shot guns and think it should be ok to improve. Iirc the sear is HUGE!
Click to expand...
Yes they did , it was the Model 340 , it was made with a 22 inch and an 18 1/2 inch barrel . The carbines are very handy and are fairly common around here . Remington also chambered the Model 788 in 30/30 , far less common than the Savage 340 , but probably one of the most accurate factory rifles chambered in 30/30 .
The Baikals do have grim triggers , but they can be cleaned up without a lot of difficulty . They won't be the best trigger you've ever used , but they can be worked with .

AB
 
zanes said:
Entirely possible, much like the occasional 'are you loading for an AK-47 then?' quips I've heard about the 7.62x39. I never had any objections to a slot for a 7.62x39 but its target only and was granted probably 5 years ago.

In reality it's just another centrefire with, especially in the case of the aforementioned 7.62x39, entirely (especially?) pedestrian performance and ballistics.

In my case for range work it fulfilled my 'something a bit different and cheap to run for a centrefire' itch. From load research I've done on various US forums it undoubtedly makes a very handy and capable hunting rifle/round at sensible ranges, but there's nothing inherently special or exotic about either chambering.

The only issue/question I could perhaps see from an FEO for the x39/300BLK is it could be seen as a 'bit too much' for vermin with it being a 30 cal but a 'bit too little' for deer in terms of energy and range (check out the trajectory compared to other calibres- can .300 BLK be made deer legal?). Perhaps in the middle would be fox or similar but not sure I'd take a x39 over something like a .223 for that? Maybe an angle on .300BLK is noise as there are loads of sub loads for that - x39 subsonic is a bit more niche and the small amount of work I've done on that side of things hasn't worked well at all.

There's also the real practical considerations of availability/choice/price of rifles (took me years to find a heavy barreled bolt action) and components versus something more usual- though of course .300BLK doesn't have the latter issue as the brass is easily convertible from .223. Not sure on factory availability for ammo in either case, especially for hunting.

As anyone with a reloading or ballistics manual would be able to prove neither calibre is worth getting worked up about in terms of performance. I'd certainly be happy to argue the toss with my set of .30 cals....
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If you get a long barrel bolt action 300blk you might get it over the UK deer legal limit but you will probably need an inferior bullet and some over pressure to get there my 17"/45cm barrel are ~300ft/lbs low and its so much easyer to just use my 308w instead then I hunt biggame.
300HAMR will be easyer get get over the limit.
 
KimE said:
If you get a long barrel bolt action 300blk you might get it over the UK deer legal limit but you will probably need an inferior bullet and some over pressure to get there my 17"/45cm barrel are ~300ft/lbs low and its so much easyer to just use my 308w instead then I hunt biggame.
300HAMR will be easyer get get over the limit.
Click to expand...
This is why the difference between England and Wales on one side and Scotland on the other is daft!
Using factory ammo supersonic on Roe is adequate and “humane”
 
KimE said:
If you get a long barrel bolt action 300blk you might get it over the UK deer legal limit but you will probably need an inferior bullet and some over pressure to get there my 17"/45cm barrel are ~300ft/lbs low and its so much easyer to just use my 308w instead then I hunt biggame.
300HAMR will be easyer get get over the limit.
Click to expand...
Small deer muntjac and CWD in England and Wales need 100ft/lbs ( apparently). Larger than them 1700ft/lb..
Scotland, a 1000ft/lb is adequate for roe too.

Stupid country, idiot experts running the show fiddling with this and fiddling with that, they don't know their arse from their elbows.......
 
Smellydog said:
Small deer muntjac and CWD in England and Wales need 100ft/lbs ( apparently). Larger than them 1700ft/lb..
Scotland, a 1000ft/lb is adequate for roe too.

Stupid country, idiot experts running the show fiddling with this and fiddling with that, they don't know their arse from their elbows.......
Click to expand...
We have 800j/590ft/lbs at 100m 50gr bullets for Roe deer but 2000j/1475 at 100m and a 155gr bullet at 100m for fallow deer and bigger (2000j 7,5g for copper bullets). So kombination guns in 12g-222r were bought for driven hunts for roedeer in 1970-1980s. So my 300blk are not legal for fallow, wolf or moufflon wich it would be great for.
 
jb7x57 said:
If you home load a 300blk you can get them deer legal with a 100/110 grn bullet
I have a begara break action use 110 grn Sierra in sub and super as well as 200 grn in sub handy quiet rifle
Click to expand...
Really? Do you have any load data you’d be willing to share? Not home loads for mine but factory ammo never comes anywhere near being deer legal for the larger species……
 
Interesting, hadn't browsed through Swedish legislation regarding all those species. Only that rifles that look scary are forbidden in hunting... (semiautos after certain year, if they don't look like "traditional hunting rifles", IIRC)

In Finland wolf and moufflon are in the "roe deer category" i.e. 800 Joule @100m. Though 45gr non-lead bullet is sufficient.

One of the most recent changes, apart from non-lead weight/joule cuts, was moving wild boar from "whitetail deer category" to "moose and bear category".

The whole system is quite complicated (different energy limits based on bullet weight and material) so I don't go it through here. But interesting point is, 80gr non-lead bullet with 1700 Joule / 1254 ft-lbs @100m would suffice for red deer. Not that we have any. If we had, it'd might have been moved to the "moose category" also (115gr and 1900 Joule / 1400 ft-lbs @100m for non-lead).
 
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