Gordons v Quickload v actual

Deermanagement

Well-Known Member
Chrono'd a couple of loads in .270 and .22/250 that were quicker than Gordons estimate by 1.3 to 3%. When I get chance to chrono a couple of 6.5 Cr loads I'm hoping to get the same sort of result quickload gives (a bit quicker than Gordons estimate). Question, for it common for Gordons to generally underestimate?
 
Chrono'd a couple of loads in .270 and .22/250 that were quicker than Gordons estimate by 1.3 to 3%. When I get chance to chrono a couple of 6.5 Cr loads I'm hoping to get the same sort of result quickload gives (a bit quicker than Gordons estimate). Question, for it common for Gordons to generally underestimate?
I’ve always used GRT to get me “into the right reloading zone” but never relied upon the quoted speed, taking the absolute from the chrono to calculate tge round’s ballistics and MV legality. Currently away stalking for the week but when I get home I’ll dig out the GRT starting prints I last used for my .243, .270 and .308 working loads and compare them to actual for you.
 
Chrono'd a couple of loads in .270 and .22/250 that were quicker than Gordons estimate by 1.3 to 3%. When I get chance to chrono a couple of 6.5 Cr loads I'm hoping to get the same sort of result quickload gives (a bit quicker than Gordons estimate). Question, for it common for Gordons to generally underestimate?

These are tools which can give a ‘guide’ only - it’s not at all surprising that actual velocities often differ by as much if not more than you’ve found.
 
Chrono'd a couple of loads in .270 and .22/250 that were quicker than Gordons estimate by 1.3 to 3%. When I get chance to chrono a couple of 6.5 Cr loads I'm hoping to get the same sort of result quickload gives (a bit quicker than Gordons estimate). Question, for it common for Gordons to generally underestimate?
They will all get you into the “ball park”. Projected and actual data will undoubtedly differ.
DG
 
With all the simulation models there are plenty of variables not taken into account. Notably the actual barrel - variations in the bore, in particular bore diameter can make a big difference to pressures and velocities.

Then think of all the other variables- neck tension, throat wear, chamber dimensions etc etc. that also have an effect.

I view Quickload and reloading manuals as a guide and a starting point.
 
I also think that simulation models, if well designed can give a pretty good insight into what will happen in real life and will probably give pretty good results in majority of rifles.

Pretty good - well probably not sub half MOA, but well within minute of deer at normal hunting ranges. And majority of rifles - off the shelf factory rifles in good order made in the middle of production runs so well within tolerances. Your shagged put barrel with pitted bore and long lead will be at one end of the bell curve, your precision custom at the other.

To get a rifle to achieve its full potential may well need quite a bit of tuning to really shoot well.

And then of course there is the argument over whether all of this is statistically valid and whether its worth the effort? Fundamentally this is down to the individual and own particular desires, circumstances and needs.

Using the Lee Loader with a hammer and yellow plastic measuring cup will give perfectly adequate ammo for most hunting needs, so to can taking the optimum load from a simulation model. You can certainly put meat on the table. But can you confidently shoot that buck of a lifetime at 400m, or be competitive in F Class world championships - perhaps, but probably not.

As for the statistic arguments - I will leave that to those who teach the subject to explain.
 
Chrono'd a couple of loads in .270 and .22/250 that were quicker than Gordons estimate by 1.3 to 3%. When I get chance to chrono a couple of 6.5 Cr loads I'm hoping to get the same sort of result quickload gives (a bit quicker than Gordons estimate). Question, for it common for Gordons to generally underestimate?
What was your load and your barrel length and your muzzle velocity?
 
Perhaps you just need a better simulator...
Thank you for that, looks consistent with a slight overestimate of results but closer than either QL or G's. I'll use it to generate results for a couple of others and compare when I've checked them. Interesting is the difference between load ratio and % burnt between Gordons and P-Max, G's suggesting 93.1% as apposed to 99% in .270 whilst in the 22/250, G's suggest 94% as apposed to 99% with P-Max.
 
Interesting is the difference between load ratio and % burnt between Gordons and P-Max, G's suggesting 93.1% as apposed to 99% in .270 whilst in the 22/250, G's suggest 94% as apposed to 99% with P-Max.
And how borbal managed to find out YOUR case capacity. That's one of the easiest "tuning parameters" with internal ballistic tools, and can make or break the day...
 
And how borbal managed to find out YOUR case capacity.
Indeed. I consulted the table of powder spaces which is linked in the notes to the app and gives an estimate, but of course it is best to measure the case capacity yourself. Note that the P-Max "powder space" is the volume behind the loaded bullet in an empty case, not the "case capacity" as used in GRT and QL which is the volume up to the case mouth.
 
Doesn't seem to have much in the way of pistol calibres or powders.
Nope. Very fast pistol powders are very sensitive to case capacity and shot start pressure and so general simulators of this sort (including GRT and QL) do not give good results for pistol and particularly revolver cartridges. For that reason, fast pistol powders are not included.
 
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