New rifles, quality against price?

[wildfowler.250]

What’s good value in a rifle these days? I’m
Not necessarily saying cheap but it’s hard to know what’s actually worth the cash.

I love my current sako 75 and have looked at tweaking a few things like a comb riser. This has lead me into browsing new guns,(I’m probably too sentimental to sell). What really caught my eye was the sako 90 quest but I’ll get to that in a minute.

I’d liked the look of these adjustable stocks like PSE. Now if you were to buy a sporter style T3x and slap a PSE stock on it,(I think they have a varmint offering with something similar), you’re probably talking about £1k for the rifle and another £1K for the stock.

The blazer R8 ultimate,(again just looking for a nice adjustable thumbhole stock) comes in at about £5K. Obviously switch barrel. I assume most of us probably stick to the one cal or have a spare rifle.

The sako quest looks great but it’s pitching in at around £3.5K which seems steep. The S20 I’m not sure about the looks in truth.

Schultz and Larsen offer switch barrel rifles at around £2k - £2.5K which by comparison, seems very reasonable.

It’s difficult to know what you’re getting and paying for as far as build quality, mark up and something that will last,(because values on most second hand rifles seems to tank).

Any thoughts on what’s sensible options going forward? You can semi custom into new calibers but year on year, the aftermarket parts get less and less. Some will say tikkas use and abuse. I’m not entirely sure blaser at twice the price of a schultz is worth it? Nor am I sure is 1K extra for the sako worth it but I do love that double stack magazine. It’s hard to judge with all the options and costs when really all you’re tying to do it hit a dinner plate inside 200M.

 

[Utectok]

So my tuppence worth is…. Blaser my friend has one a truly great switch barrel system as the scope is attached to the barrel so no zeroing… he has two barrels and two scopes so ver flexible…. Having said that very expensive if you buy two good scopes extra barrel it all gets pretty mental. He can afford it so why not I suppose.
Mind you his Schultz and Larson is more accurate?! Only a bit but….
Me I bought and old tikka rebarreled it and stuck a PSE stock on it and a two stage trigger from an A1 tikka probably £3-£3.5k supper accurate and durable and I’m happy. Perhaps a couple of ponds heavier than I would like but I stuck a big heavy S&B scope on it.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Slap a Kroseg Carbon stock on your 75 and rebarrel it if needs be
You will still have a better made rifle than many of those listed and several shekels in your pocket !!

 

[viking90]

Savage seem hard to beat as they're basically kit guns. A new Axis is just under 600 quid but they aren't just switch barrel they're pretty much switch everything. You can buy one chambered in .223 but with basic tools and a few extra parts you can be shooting 300wm in a few minutes. If you're using cartridges that are on the same bolt face and action length then its even quicker as you're only swapping the barrel.

 

[scotch_egg]

Your opener is asking what is good value, that really is an exponential question.

Firstly prices have risen well above inflation or Brexit in the last few years. So an idea of value really comes down to what you as the buyer wants and comparing the features of the rifles on the market. Secondly re-sale value really shouldn’t be a consideration. As you have found with your current rifle you don’t need to sell it and it has sentimental value. Although there is a risk you will go for the rifle you know how to shoot well and are familiar with. Although I still have the first deer legal rifle I bought and don’t find myself in that situation anymore….

Reading your post the most important feature you are looking for is the adjustable cheek piece which I completely agree upon. With large objective scopes for better light gathering as such scopes are mounted higher and cheek weld becomes an issue.

The argument between factory rifle and customisation is a never ending question with various for and against. Only you will be able to choose what suits your needs and wants.

The Blaser is feature rich. Straight pull design with quick barrel changes and has the important adjustable cheek piece. However all this comes at a premium. The action is noisy and spare barrels have become very expensive. The return to zero is repeatable, that includes removing the scope from barrel and moving barrels on and off the action. You don’t need a spare scope for each barrel just know the difference in zeroes between barrels. However having the confidence in this is something else. £5000

The sako Quest has integrated picatinny rail, double stack metal magazine, mechanical ejector and a carbon adjustable stock £3595 there is also the adventure model with an adjustable cheek piece. Not carbon though at £2765.

Tikka T3 is a nice simple action. A dovetail rail that can be used with various mounts or an add on picatinny rail. The factory stocks are ok and you can easily add an adjustable cheek piece to the lite models such as the kalix. You would have a complete rifle for £1400. It would do everything you need. There are of course plenty of aftermarket stock’s available ranging in cost. But a nice carbon stock from PSE is around £1100 with the adjustable cheek piece. There is also the Kroseg stock as an alternative. You could keep an eye out for secondhand as they come up and can be had for a significant saving.

The Schultz and Larsen are nice rifles. I don’t know anything about them. Again user barrel swaps easily done. If this is something you desire or even need.

The Kroseg stock and rebarrel option @Edinburgh Rifles suggests will still cost in the region of £2000. The Kroseg is probably the only composite aftermarket stock available for sako now days.

One this is for sure, they should all be capable of half MOA accuracy with factory ammunition.

 

[Bowland blades]

What’s good value in a rifle these days? I’m
Not necessarily saying cheap but it’s hard to know what’s actually worth the cash.

I love my current sako 75 and have looked at tweaking a few things like a comb riser. This has lead me into browsing new guns,(I’m probably too sentimental to sell). What really caught my eye was the sako 90 quest but I’ll get to that in a minute.

I’d liked the look of these adjustable stocks like PSE. Now if you were to buy a sporter style T3x and slap a PSE stock on it,(I think they have a varmint offering with something similar), you’re probably talking about £1k for the rifle and another £1K for the stock.

The blazer R8 ultimate,(again just looking for a nice adjustable thumbhole stock) comes in at about £5K. Obviously switch barrel. I assume most of us probably stick to the one cal or have a spare rifle.

The sako quest looks great but it’s pitching in at around £3.5K which seems steep. The S20 I’m not sure about the looks in truth.

Schultz and Larsen offer switch barrel rifles at around £2k - £2.5K which by comparison, seems very reasonable.

It’s difficult to know what you’re getting and paying for as far as build quality, mark up and something that will last,(because values on most second hand rifles seems to tank).

Any thoughts on what’s sensible options going forward? You can semi custom into new calibers but year on year, the aftermarket parts get less and less. Some will say tikkas use and abuse. I’m not entirely sure blaser at twice the price of a schultz is worth it? Nor am I sure is 1K extra for the sako worth it but I do love that double stack magazine. It’s hard to judge with all the options and costs when really all you’re tying to do it hit a dinner plate inside 200M.

Firstly , the Sako 75 is still imo one of the best stalking rifles ever built ! Fierce Firearms seem to agree and copied it with modern upgrades only , Sako stopped it because of the build cost and the potential sales from a cheaper made version .
The comb hight is not an actual issue if you put low or medium mounts on the 75 but high mounts and picatini rails on top again put things a bit higher .
I restocked one of my 75's with the McMillan hunter stock ( an exact mold they took off the 75 ) just wanted more weatherproof and less maintainance - i kept the original walnut in the gunroom !
Not a Blazer fan myself , 1. the barrels are too expensive and seem to have low round counts . price against a new screw on fitted of a good barrel is often less than Blazer asks for a spare ! 2. They dont take pressure as well !
If your looking for dinner plate at 200 , do you really need a so called " up- grade at all ?"
Looking at things myself at the moment as i fancy another 243 for deer and fox night and day , which means picatiny for swapping optics and i quite fancy the carbonlite from Sako but i dont like the recoil lug set up or the price , i also like the weight and the ability to get one in a faster twist rate by order .

 

[Lateral]

Savage seem hard to beat as they're basically kit guns. A new Axis is just under 600 quid but they aren't just switch barrel they're pretty much switch everything. You can buy one chambered in .223 but with basic tools and a few extra parts you can be shooting 300wm in a few minutes. If you're using cartridges that are on the same bolt face and action length then its even quicker as you're only swapping the barrel.

I've tried finding Axis change barrel, and can't find anything, which would make it a "swap barrel", such as the Blaser, Merkel Helix, or Shultz, & Larsen for example.

Prioritize what features you want. Budget, and, or swap barrel narrows it down considerably.

There are excellent deals to be found on used Blasers, and you could always buy the stock, bolt, trigger unit used, and buy a new barrel, although new Blaser barrel prices are obscene, unless you can find an older stock item.

 

[NP435]

Savage seem hard to beat as they're basically kit guns. A new Axis is just under 600 quid but they aren't just switch barrel they're pretty much switch everything. You can buy one chambered in .223 but with basic tools and a few extra parts you can be shooting 300wm in a few minutes. If you're using cartridges that are on the same bolt face and action length then its even quicker as you're only swapping the barrel.

Yes some of the best non altered rifles I have used are Savage, hard to beat the aacu trigger in terms of fast adjustment. A vote for the Ruger M77 MK2 as well.

 

[Jelen]

What’s good value in a rifle these days? I’m
Not necessarily saying cheap but it’s hard to know what’s actually worth the cash.

I love my current sako 75 and have looked at tweaking a few things like a comb riser. This has lead me into browsing new guns,(I’m probably too sentimental to sell). What really caught my eye was the sako 90 quest but I’ll get to that in a minute.

I’d liked the look of these adjustable stocks like PSE. Now if you were to buy a sporter style T3x and slap a PSE stock on it,(I think they have a varmint offering with something similar), you’re probably talking about £1k for the rifle and another £1K for the stock.

The blazer R8 ultimate,(again just looking for a nice adjustable thumbhole stock) comes in at about £5K. Obviously switch barrel. I assume most of us probably stick to the one cal or have a spare rifle.

The sako quest looks great but it’s pitching in at around £3.5K which seems steep. The S20 I’m not sure about the looks in truth.

Schultz and Larsen offer switch barrel rifles at around £2k - £2.5K which by comparison, seems very reasonable.

It’s difficult to know what you’re getting and paying for as far as build quality, mark up and something that will last,(because values on most second hand rifles seems to tank).

Any thoughts on what’s sensible options going forward? You can semi custom into new calibers but year on year, the aftermarket parts get less and less. Some will say tikkas use and abuse. I’m not entirely sure blaser at twice the price of a schultz is worth it? Nor am I sure is 1K extra for the sako worth it but I do love that double stack magazine. It’s hard to judge with all the options and costs when really all you’re tying to do it hit a dinner plate inside 200M.

I did exactly what you say re the Tikka. Bought the standard Tikka T3, stuck it in a PSE stock and lightened the trigger. With reloads the rifle shoots 1/2 MoA all day and doesn't weigh a ton.

 

[viking90]

I've tried finding Axis change barrel, and can't find anything, which would make it a "swap barrel", such as the Blaser, Merkel Helix, or Shultz, & Larsen for example.

Prioritize what features you want. Budget, and, or swap barrel narrows it down considerably.

There are excellent deals to be found on used Blasers, and you could always buy the stock, bolt, trigger unit used, and buy a new barrel, although new Blaser barrel prices are obscene, unless you can find an older stock item.

They're easy to do I've just put in for a 7-08 barrel for mine. Undo the barrel nut, unscrew the barrel, put the nut on the different barrel if you don't have a spare one, screw in the barrel (check the head space with the gauge) and tighten the barrel nut. Easy. If you can thread a nut and bolt together you can change a savage barrel

 

[Lateral]

They're easy to do I've just put in for a 7-08 barrel for mine. Undo the barrel nut, unscrew the barrel, put the nut on the different barrel if you don't have a spare one, screw in the barrel (check the head space with the gauge) and tighten the barrel nut. Easy. If you can thread a nut and bolt together you can change a savage barrel

Thanks, but not quite the same as the others mentioned, where they literally take a few seconds, with repeatable accuracy ?

 

[Heym SR20]

Bergara, Howa and Mauser M18 all offer a lot of gun for the money. Many now with adjustable stocks etc.

 

[viking90]

Thanks, but not quite the same as the others mentioned, where they literally take a few seconds, with repeatable accuracy ?

This is very true but they're a sub 600 quid rifle brand new, compared to the second hand price of the others with quick change barrels I reckon I could put up with a few minutes to change a barrel instead of a few seconds. With wildfowler asking about good value in a rifle these days I reckon the savage is hard to beat. The other bonus is they're very easy to spin barrels up for, I can literally do them myself which saves a fortune.

 

[wildfowler.250]

So my tuppence worth is…. Blaser my friend has one a truly great switch barrel system as the scope is attached to the barrel so no zeroing… he has two barrels and two scopes so ver flexible…. Having said that very expensive if you buy two good scopes extra barrel it all gets pretty mental. He can afford it so why not I suppose.
Mind you his Schultz and Larson is more accurate?! Only a bit but….
Me I bought and old tikka rebarreled it and stuck a PSE stock on it and a two stage trigger from an A1 tikka probably £3-£3.5k supper accurate and durable and I’m happy. Perhaps a couple of ponds heavier than I would like but I stuck a big heavy S&B scope on it.

‘Doing up’ a tikka seems like a reasonable shout. I figured you’d be about 1K for the rifle and another 1K for the pse? Did the trigger kit make a big difference? I’ve used tikkas on estate days and they’re absolutely fine but a bit agricultural. Mind you, the estate rifles are sometimes a bit rough and ready and not anywhere in the same league as above.

Slap a Kroseg Carbon stock on your 75 and rebarrel it if needs be
You will still have a better made rifle than many of those listed and several shekels in your pocket !!

I’ve just looked them up. Seem to do a nice paint job now and the adjustable sako looks appealing.
I haven’t heard shekels in a while. Great word!

Savage seem hard to beat as they're basically kit guns. A new Axis is just under 600 quid but they aren't just switch barrel they're pretty much switch everything. You can buy one chambered in .223 but with basic tools and a few extra parts you can be shooting 300wm in a few minutes. If you're using cartridges that are on the same bolt face and action length then its even quicker as you're only swapping the barrel.

I hadn’t thought of savage but I suppose like Remington,(and tikka) you can add as you like!

Your opener is asking what is good value, that really is an exponential question.

Firstly prices have risen well above inflation or Brexit in the last few years. So an idea of value really comes down to what you as the buyer wants and comparing the features of the rifles on the market. Secondly re-sale value really shouldn’t be a consideration. As you have found with your current rifle you don’t need to sell it and it has sentimental value. Although there is a risk you will go for the rifle you know how to shoot well and are familiar with. Although I still have the first deer legal rifle I bought and don’t find myself in that situation anymore….

Reading your post the most important feature you are looking for is the adjustable cheek piece which I completely agree upon. With large objective scopes for better light gathering as such scopes are mounted higher and cheek weld becomes an issue.

The argument between factory rifle and customisation is a never ending question with various for and against. Only you will be able to choose what suits your needs and wants.

The Blaser is feature rich. Straight pull design with quick barrel changes and has the important adjustable cheek piece. However all this comes at a premium. The action is noisy and spare barrels have become very expensive. The return to zero is repeatable, that includes removing the scope from barrel and moving barrels on and off the action. You don’t need a spare scope for each barrel just know the difference in zeroes between barrels. However having the confidence in this is something else. £5000

The sako Quest has integrated picatinny rail, double stack metal magazine, mechanical ejector and a carbon adjustable stock £3595 there is also the adventure model with an adjustable cheek piece. Not carbon though at £2765.

Tikka T3 is a nice simple action. A dovetail rail that can be used with various mounts or an add on picatinny rail. The factory stocks are ok and you can easily add an adjustable cheek piece to the lite models such as the kalix. You would have a complete rifle for £1400. It would do everything you need. There are of course plenty of aftermarket stock’s available ranging in cost. But a nice carbon stock from PSE is around £1100 with the adjustable cheek piece. There is also the Kroseg stock as an alternative. You could keep an eye out for secondhand as they come up and can be had for a significant saving.

The Schultz and Larsen are nice rifles. I don’t know anything about them. Again user barrel swaps easily done. If this is something you desire or even need.

The Kroseg stock and rebarrel option @Edinburgh Rifles suggests will still cost in the region of £2000. The Kroseg is probably the only composite aftermarket stock available for sako now days.

One this is for sure, they should all be capable of half MOA accuracy with factory ammunition.

2K! That’s closer to double what I expected!

Cheers! Super helpful and detailed. Funnily it is the large X56 scopes I find a bit difficult for eye position. I can see great but I felt I was lifting my head up all the time and sometimes almost getting 2 groups on a 5 shot target. Stuck a beartooth cheek kit on it and it’s helped a lot but I do fancy something more ‘fixed’ on the stock. Or in the future I’ll sell the scope and go for a X50.
The one thing I liked about the quest was that you seem to be able to adjust the length / stock pad as well. I couldn’t see this on the adventure. Being 6’2 it would be quite nice to adjust the length a little.

Firstly , the Sako 75 is still imo one of the best stalking rifles ever built ! Fierce Firearms seem to agree and copied it with modern upgrades only , Sako stopped it because of the build cost and the potential sales from a cheaper made version .
The comb hight is not an actual issue if you put low or medium mounts on the 75 but high mounts and picatini rails on top again put things a bit higher .
I restocked one of my 75's with the McMillan hunter stock ( an exact mold they took off the 75 ) just wanted more weatherproof and less maintainance - i kept the original walnut in the gunroom !
Not a Blazer fan myself , 1. the barrels are too expensive and seem to have low round counts . price against a new screw on fitted of a good barrel is often less than Blazer asks for a spare ! 2. They dont take pressure as well !
If your looking for dinner plate at 200 , do you really need a so called " up- grade at all ?"
Looking at things myself at the moment as i fancy another 243 for deer and fox night and day , which means picatiny for swapping optics and i quite fancy the carbonlite from Sako but i dont like the recoil lug set up or the price , i also like the weight and the ability to get one in a faster twist rate by order .

I couldn’t actually tell you which optilocks are on it but the scope doesn’t sit high on the barrel so it’s probably about right.
I’ve never understood the advantage of a picatinny. Is it just a longer platform for nightvision scopes?
I assume you couldn’t add quick release type mounts on a 75 similar to the blaser style where you can pack away and not loose zero?

I've tried finding Axis change barrel, and can't find anything, which would make it a "swap barrel", such as the Blaser, Merkel Helix, or Shultz, & Larsen for example.

Prioritize what features you want. Budget, and, or swap barrel narrows it down considerably.

There are excellent deals to be found on used Blasers, and you could always buy the stock, bolt, trigger unit used, and buy a new barrel, although new Blaser barrel prices are obscene, unless you can find an older stock item.

I hadn’t thought about buying used with new barrel. Will look into this. I’m sure there’s deals to be had somewhere!

I did exactly what you say re the Tikka. Bought the standard Tikka T3, stuck it in a PSE stock and lightened the trigger. With reloads the rifle shoots 1/2 MoA all day and doesn't weigh a ton.

This seems to be a sensible option. My worry is it won’t be as refined as the sako but it will definitely fit better..

Bergara, Howa and Mauser M18 all offer a lot of gun for the money. Many now with adjustable stocks etc.

Good shout! I’d forgotten about these. Bergara seems increasing popular

 

[Lateral]

This is very true but they're a sub 600 quid rifle brand new, compared to the second hand price of the others with quick change barrels I reckon I could put up with a few minutes to change a barrel instead of a few seconds. With wildfowler asking about good value in a rifle these days I reckon the savage is hard to beat. The other bonus is they're very easy to spin barrels up for, I can literally do them myself which saves a fortune.

It's certainly cheap, but I'm pretty certain the people who would favour a Blaser, or similar, wouldn't want to faff about with lock nuts, and then having to set the head space accurately enough, to get repeatable accuracy, but it certainly has a place, and having shot a Savage, it was very accurate.

 

[Beretta V]

I just gone from a howa to a Tikka 590.
I wanted one about 20 years ago and ended up with a howa as the package was very cheap to start me off. Being honest howa are bloody good accurate rifles.
The tikka has a beautiful walnut stock, silky smooth bolt and is definitely lighter than the Howa.
If the barrel isn’t great I will have it barred into a 6.5 creed then I have a quality rifle that hasn’t cost the earth

 

[Cranborne]

I also went the Tikka T3X route and fitted a PSE multipurpose stock, UK Gunworks bottom metal, magazine release catch and a lighter trigger spring. Very happy with the results.

 

[newsatten]

Personally I think the question is , do you require a tool or a possession?
If it’s the forma then any budget bang stick will suffice,
However if it’s the latter buy once and cry once,
And absolutely don’t think of residual values,
Rifles will loose half there purchase costs in six months of buying them!

So make a decision, then do your homework
Then purchase and keep it forever!!!!!

 

[Ronin]

Second hand tikka T3, Revarrel - pse stock

Perfect killing tool that will last for years

 

[scotch_egg]

@wildfowler.250 I have just read your reply regarding the Tikka T3 trigger. The two stage T3 trigger allows you to remove the bolt on safe like the Sako trigger. However if you are used to a single stage trigger it can take some getting used to and the factory trigger spring is heavier than the Sako 85 at least it is heavier than the one on my 85.

I have an 85 re-barreled in 6mm creedmoor in a KKC stock. I needed the adjustable comb for NV. At the time the Kroseg stock wasn’t available. They look really nice and I’ll be looking further into it. The donor 85 action was £400 and the barrel £800. Secondhand KKC £350. I went with a Near Picatinny rail for the ease of swapping scopes around £150. All in that’s £1700.

I have a .223 tikka T3x. Factory barreled action and a PSE E-Tac stock and a metal bottom metal. All bought secondhand and stands me at £1500.


Both of these shoot hand loaded ammunition under half inch.

The Sako feels more refined, I have to be honest the T3 is smooth but not tight. I have no idea what the new 90 feels like having not handled one, but the integral picatinny mounts are a nice improvement over the 85. The adventure model looks like a great factory package with adjustable cheek piece for £2765. I’ve just looked and the length of pull doesn’t appear to adjustable. You have to asses whether that feature and a carbon stock is worth the extra £830 for the quest.

I have to admit I like the idea of a factory rifle because it’s designed to work from the ground up. I just end up building because I’ve got short arms and deep pockets. Plus certain features aren’t available from the factory that I have on my requirements list.

Just like @newsatten says, secondhand rifles loose half their value. But IMHO that’s as soon as they leave the store. Much like when a car leaves the forecourt.