Kipplauf advice- K95/ K3&4 etc?

[JMH123]

Gentlemen,

I find that my 7x57/.275 Ron Wharton, which was once a little bit of a traditional niche, is now almost merging into the mainstream consciousness (helped by Rigby Highland Stalker et al), and I feel the need for some other eccentricity!

What better than a Kipplauf- light, accurate, basic sporting simplicity and style. Just what I need for a happy 50th birthday! Open sights and a low mag swaro- mainly roe bucks and the odd highland stag. Definitely in the quality not quantity zone.

Anyway, looking at a Blaser K95 or Merkel K3/5, or possibly a Krieghoff Hubertus, and grateful for any thoughts and advice from those that have them.

People get overly concerned with the performance of various calibers in general, but caliber does matter a bit with a Kipplauf I think, in terms of both practicality and (to me at least) tradition.
I don't want to home load, and 7x57R is virtually unavailable off the shelf in the UK. 6.5x55 is therefore first choice and should extract fine, despite not being a rimmed cartridge.
Most availability, and most Kipplaufs sold in the UK, are however .243 or .308. Both of these are a little bit dull to me, not very 'Alpine', and I wouldn't really choose either for a Kipplauf (but may have to accept Hobson's choice!). My main concern with the .308 and a Kipplauf is felt recoil. Views on that from those who have one?

Any thoughts appreciated!

Is a loden hat essential? I imagine so?!

Thanks.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The new Merkel one at IWA 2024 was shown with a luverly piece of wood for 5.5k Euros in multi cals or with just an old log for 4.5K euros.
Or go over the top at 10-12K euros for a Prinz in whichever cal you desire, they would build it to your stature, means a trip to their shop in South Germany for measuring up.

 

[Heym SR20]

Several thoughts.

1) go for a longer barrel. I have a combination with a 26” barrel and still shorter than a rifle with a 22” barrel. Some k95 have 18” barrels and are far too short.

2) kipplaufs are mostly pretty light so do recoil. You need to learn to manage this through holding the forend etc. And they need to fit and you need a scope mounted far enough forward so your doesn’t get hit. Once this is sorted you don’t notice the recoil.

3) please don’t over scope them. Many want to scope these rifles with 56mm objective weighing 2lbs. They totally ruin the balance. Go with a light weight 1” tubed 42” objective or ideally a 36mm objective ( Swaro z3 3-9x36 or khales 4-12x44).

4). Rimmed vs rimless. With a rimless cartridge there is detent that fits into the rim. Loading is no issue. Unloading you do need to reach in under the back of barrel to grab case head with your fingers to extract. Cold wet fingers this can be an issue. With a rimmed case you just tip the gun sideways.

5) a 6.5 would be a good choice and plenty good enough for any deer or mountain game. This chap uses a 6.5x55 K95 and he has a whole youTube channel dedicated to shooting at longer range with it. He has had the stock made into a classic shape, rather than the Hoggsback (which I don’t like). I am not convinced by the bipod as is probably causes more issues than it solves. I have used a K95 similarly setup in 300 win mag. The bipod just got in the way, bounced and sent shots high. I shot it as God intended, holding the forend, rested on my pack and squeezing the rifle in.

 

[Heym SR20]

The new Merkel one at IWA 2024 was shown with a luverly piece of wood for 5.5k Euros in multi cals or with just an old log for 4.5K euros.
Or go over the top at 10-12K euros for a Prinz in whichever cal you desire, they would build it to your stature, means a trip to their shop in South Germany for measuring up.

The Prinz rifles are beautiful.

 

[Heym SR20]

Also have a look at this video



The Jeager is a nice affordable rifle. Don’t discount the Bergara either

 

[375win]

The K3 in .308 with the short fluted barrel and a freyr&devik moderator have met my requirements, which were identical to yours. It's a pleasure to shoot. Accurate all day long. The F&D featherweight mod. does not affect what is a beautfilly balanced, light, portable gun. Recoil is not to worth mentioning. It goes very well with a Merkel double in 7x57R, which is a great caliber btw.
Reviews of the Krieghof Hubertus are not complimentary on German forums. Issues with accuracy amongst other things, if I recall correctly.
K95 is a slightly bigger gun, but lovely too. I'm not a Blaser man. Apart from their sticks, which are the dog's nackers.

 

[Dunwaters]

They are difficult to shoot well because of the light weight and in at least one K95 the trigger was much too light for a stalking rifle and couldn’t be user adjusted.
Other than that they look very cool and the single shot isn’t nearly as big a disadvantage as you might think.

 

[Andy-shooter]

I have a Merkel K3 in 7x57R and before that had a Blaser K95 in 308. Both are amazing rifles and incredibly accurate despite weighing about as much as a crisp packet. The Blaser was octagonal barrel with a full length stock and so not threaded for a moderator. It was bloody loud! While a mod does not look great on a kipplauf my k3 has the tiny F&D fitted for most outings.

I load my own 7x57r but you can buy them from good gunshops, I got some from Simpson Brothers not that long ago.

The rimless vs rimmed cartridge argument in my experience is moot. Both were fine to extract. Most of the time I tip them out. Reload time is fine, I managed 5 fallow from a herd in about a minute on a cull day a couple of years ago. (Which I hadn’t because then I had to extract half a tonne across a ploughed field manually)

Summarising- buy one, they are great, I recommend one you can fit a mod to if the need arises.

 

[JMH123]

Some useful views here- thanks.
Interesting comment on barrel length.
Relaxed about the single shot- I won't be using this rifle on hinds.
Agreed on over scoping- what horror to see an 8x56 mounted on a Kipplauf! Planning 30 or 32 or 36mm objective lens on QR mounts.
Not planning on fitting a mod- I hate them on any rifle but particularly something like a Kipplauf. Each to their own though.

 

[Stalker62]

Another wonderful video from @Norway thank you for posting.

 

[Heym SR20]

Some useful views here- thanks.
Interesting comment on barrel length.
Relaxed about the single shot- I won't be using this rifle on hinds.
Agreed on over scoping- what horror to see an 8x56 mounted on a Kipplauf! Planning 30 or 32 or 36mm objective lens on QR mounts.
Not planning on fitting a mod- I hate them on any rifle but particularly something like a Kipplauf. Each to their own though.

If not fitting a moderator go with a longer barrel. Better balanced and 24” will be a lot quieter.

 

[sh1kar]

Also have a look at this video



The Jeager is a nice affordable rifle. Don’t discount the Bergara either

The lack of alignment on the screw heads on the right plate of the expensive Blaser would trouble me

S

 

[VSS]

The lack of alignment on the screw heads on the right plate of the expensive Blaser would trouble me

S

The trouble with aligning screw heads is that only the first one is ever tightened down correctly. The rest are either a smidge overtightened (risking shearing off) or a smidge too loose, in order to make them match the first.

 

[sh1kar]

The trouble with aligning screw heads is that only the first one is ever tightened down correctly. The rest are either a smidge overtightened (risking shearing off) or a smidge too loose, in order to make them match the first.

Eh? Hollands will be no more than a smoke molecule different

 

[sh1kar]

The trouble with aligning screw heads is that only the first one is ever tightened down correctly. The rest are either a smidge overtightened (risking shearing off) or a smidge too loose, in order to make them match the first.

How its done

High grade shotguns have aligned screwslots.

They use the gunmakers screws with extended heads (a wood or machine screw with an extended cylinder for the head), screw them into place, then mark on either side for slot alignment. Take the screw out of the gun, cut the head down, then cut the slot in the marked position. Candle smoke on thread to ensure all tightened to same torque

S

 

[VSS]

How its done

High grade shotguns have aligned screwslots.

They use the gunmakers screws with extended heads (a wood or machine screw with an extended cylinder for the head), screw them into place, then mark on either side for slot alignment. Take the screw out of the gun, cut the head down, then cut the slot in the marked position. Candle smoke on thread to ensure all tightened to same torque

S

Ah, fair enough.

 

[Freeforester]

The trouble with aligning screw heads is that only the first one is ever tightened down correctly. The rest are either a smidge overtightened (risking shearing off) or a smidge too loose, in order to make them match the first.

Were this the case, there’d be a whole lot of aggrieved Blaser, Sauer and other miscellaneous marque owners with problems; the fact that the Blaser system is used extensively across the range of both bolt action and single shot rifles, and now adopted by other rifle makes suggest that you may not be fully appraised of the practical merits of, much less the technical engineering aspects of the system - it has worked for tens pf thousands of hunters over the globe for the past thirty years. Father’s Sako Vixen used aligning screws in the mounts back in the mid 70’s, never had a problem with it either. Maybe someone got a poorly finished item?

 

[VSS]

Were this the case, there’d be a whole lot of aggrieved Blaser, Sauer and other miscellaneous marque owners with problems; the fact that the Blaser system is used extensively across the range of both bolt action and single shot rifles, and now adopted by other rifle makes suggest that you may not be fully appraised of the practical merits of, much less the technical engineering aspects of the system - it has worked for tens pf thousands of hunters over the globe for the past thirty years. Father’s Sako Vixen used aligning screws in the mounts back in the mid 70’s, never had a problem with it either. Maybe someone got a poorly finished item?

It is a common problem in classic boatbuilding. Trying to align screwheads along a capping rail (or similar) to achieve a certain "look", while at the same time damaging the integrity of the fixing through either under- or over- tightening.
Knowing this, I'm always a bit suspicious of aligned screwheads.

@sh1kar's explanation of how it's done in gunmaking has set me straight.

 

[Heym SR20]

It is a common problem in classic boatbuilding. Trying to align screwheads along a capping rail (or similar) to achieve a certain "look", while at the same time damaging the integrity of the fixing through either under- or over- tightening.
Knowing this, I'm always a bit suspicious of aligned screwheads.

@sh1kar's explanation of how it's done in gunmaking has set me straight.

In fine boat building where you want screw heads aligned its a matter of slightly deepening the counter sink. But with wood, you generally build with dry wood. Once the boat is in use moisture very quickly swells the wood and everything goes tight against the fastenings. I was taught my woodworking skills by a builder of fine wooden rowing sculls and eights. It was a matter of best workmanship to make all the screws align.

 

[stevec]

My wife has a K95 in 7x57r. It is a fantastic rifle, light and accurate.

She likes to shoot it off sticks but struggles to reload if shooting prone. She did find that she took a while to get used to shooting it.

My observations are that having once used a 243 kipplauf, I would make sure that I had a rimmed calibre and I would look carefully at stock design. My wife had a lightweight moderator for hers. I’d doesn’t add much weight or length to what is already a very compact rifle. I would certainly consider a moderator.

If I was buying one, I would be very tempted by the K95, having seen how amazingly accurate it is and I think I would probably look at a .22 Hornet Barrel and possibly a 9.3x74 barrel if it could be tamed sufficiently with a moderator. If only we could use 22 centreifres for roe in England, there would be lots of nice options.

What I would really like is a .303 Prinz.

There was a very nice Kreighoff in 7x57r in Bushwear in Perth a few weeks ago. Might still be there.