I think (but don't know for certain) that at this time of year in the UK a deer carcass would take quite a while to appear bloated, due to the nature of the browse available. Mostly woody stuff, not much green.
Delayed gralloch
- Thread starter Ross1980
- Start date
Personally I would not consider anything that's been left that long plenty other deer I'm not that desperate likewise stomach contents forget all thus washing you are only spreading the contamination if I can't cut it away
then it doesn't enter the food chain not through the gamedealer and certainly not mine nor my families.
then it doesn't enter the food chain not through the gamedealer and certainly not mine nor my families.
How long would your cut off be between shot and gralloch? Winter, not summer.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I believe that its the contents, not what the contents are. The animal is simply not farting gas build up that is a constant product of rumination.
I posted a pic of a deer with dogs recently and suggested that there was more to the story. I shall get off my freckle and relate it shortly. It is pertinent to the thread.
Sure, but less gas produced during the digestion of woody material than during the digestion of lush green growth is what I am thinking.
By ‘that long’ do you mean 3-4 hours, or overnight?
I have seen one that a friend shot and didn’t recover for about 12 hours. Stomach like a basketball and green oozing out of the mouth. I took one look and said an emphatic no!
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Quite apart from any bug issues which are largely resolved by old fashioned cooking techniques perhaps what you need to consider is from a culinary perspective whether any issues relating to the delay in bleeding and gralloching have resulted in a disgusting putrified taste to the meat?
How much time would have to pass for you to consider it to be "delay"?
Bearing in mind that in group culls (such as those carried out by FE, DMGs and large estates) it would quite normally be several hours, maybe half a day, before all shot deer are located and dealt with. Those carcasses are all sold into the food chain.
(Incidentally, I lost a fallow buck overnight in late April. Located and gralloched the next morning. It was absolutely fine).
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Yes much akin to lawn grass clippings getting pretty warm in a heap.
The 3/4 grown hind appeared running down a bush gully, the two dogs were free running and took her downhill to a small dam to where she sought sanctuary. I followed at my speed and noted that in an attempt to throw the pursuers she ran through a blackberry bush the size and height of a single car garage. I had a good look at it on my return journey and marvelled at the tunnel created, it was testimony to the immense strength of these deer.
Perhaps 700-800 yards after the initial sighting I came upon the dam with the hind swimming with the dogs swimming after with not much hope of catching her.
I lifted the 7mm and took the shot and she promptly sunk. I stripped off and walked out in an attempt to find her and as it had been a drought-ish summer there was a layer of green slime and floating roo, wombat and even sheep schitt that had been washed in from a quick flash summer storm.
When I reached chin depth without feeling the carcase I gave up not wanting to step into a hole and getting my gob under the filthy water.
'**** this' I lamented and then went and found a 20' long dry spar that had fallen and used it in an attempt to locate the deer. All of this was to no avail and I sat on the bank of the dam wtf-ing!
Then all of a sudden the 'thing' popped up to the surface akin to holding a beach ball under water in a pool then releasing it.
She came up with such a rush and appeared from a quite water surface that the two dogs jumped in fright as they had been laying quietly recovering after the chase and swim.
It was only then that I remembered the words of an old mentor when I was starting my sambar journey.
He had when it was legal an area above a very large lake that he hunted regularly with his hounds and the pursued deer often took to the lake as a getaway, at times swimming across lake arms of half a mile or more. Old mate had a man or two in a boat to cut off swimming deer or he did the boat run himself.
He said "mark my words Johnny, a deer shot in the water when swimming sinks like a stone and you just have to wait and it takes 20 minutes exactly and they pop up like a balloon, its not 18 minutes, its not 22 minutes its 20 ****ing minutes and I have seen it time and again"
As it was on the day outlined above it was 20 minutes when she hit the surface.
Then the work of taking the deer piece by piece uphill through bush to the ute started...ah to be young again.
Same lake early 80`s. A stalked stag in two halves.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
On driven hunts on the continent most start soo after day break and you finish about 1 to 2 pm. Only then are carcasses collected and taken back to a central point to be gralloched abs processed. Often there will be a trained staff to do this with a veterinarian checking the carcasses for disease - particularly on bigger hunts where tens of animals are shot.
Most such hunts happen in winter so days are cool. Although in places like Portugal and Spain it can be pretty warm during the day.
Best advice is to get beast cool asap, and removing the gralloch dramatically speeds this up. The rumen produces a huge amount of heat. It’s why ruminants can with stand cold temperatures with comparative ease. In a dead ruminant rumen fermentation will continue long after death and continuing to produce a lot heats and gas - but no farting / burping hence why rumens swell.
But if its cold delay won’t necessarily harm and the haunches / shoulders will cool especially if the animal is lying on cold ground, albeit the coat will act as a good insulator.
Your nose is a very good detector of high meat. Its a sweet acidic type smell. Its quite repulsive for a good reason
Most such hunts happen in winter so days are cool. Although in places like Portugal and Spain it can be pretty warm during the day.
Best advice is to get beast cool asap, and removing the gralloch dramatically speeds this up. The rumen produces a huge amount of heat. It’s why ruminants can with stand cold temperatures with comparative ease. In a dead ruminant rumen fermentation will continue long after death and continuing to produce a lot heats and gas - but no farting / burping hence why rumens swell.
But if its cold delay won’t necessarily harm and the haunches / shoulders will cool especially if the animal is lying on cold ground, albeit the coat will act as a good insulator.
Your nose is a very good detector of high meat. Its a sweet acidic type smell. Its quite repulsive for a good reason
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I never knew it was called that. Thank you. Nothing worse than seeing shot game chucked every which way in a heap. Lost count of the times I have had to ask, tell really but done as if asking, folk to turn game on its back..and give some space to the bird next to it..to allow the breasts to cool down. But didn't know it was referred to a as fired. Everyday a school day.
Ross1980
Active Member
I can confirm that there was no rigor mortis in the doe I shot and gralloched 12 hours later. I don’t understand why this would be the case ? This is the first time I’ve experienced it. The meat looked absolutely fine though - no slime or darkening.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Start writing that book!
see what the meat looks like in a day or so rigor mortis does tend to last 12-24 hours in deer.
Best Practice states twenty minutes I think that's erring on the side of safety but that's no bad thing., on the other hand certain types of bacteria can double their numbers in as little as thirty minutes.
Ambient? temperature is not the main problem but temperature from the digestive track is that is why in Highland stalking traditionally only a green gralloch was done on the hill the pluck usually being left until the return to hill its the green gralloch is the danger
It is not only spilt stomach contents that are a danger bacteria will slowly migrate through the gut wall contaminating the rest of the carcass .
At temperatures above 8%C bacteria multiply extremely rapidly , open up a carcass after half an hour even in winter and check the internal temp more than likely considerably more than8%C warm weather will increase this even more so.
So in answer to your question my cut off time around 30 minutes however if consuming it your self you may do as you please just remember any longer and you are taking a risk not acceptable if it is being allowed to enter the food chain, how would you feel if you were responsible for giving your family food poisoning or worse.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
and bacteria will tenderise it quicker than anything lol.
sikamalc
Administrator
Apart from the time of year and temperature, which will have a slight bearing on how long it takes to bloat. I would not want to eat any of it after being left overnight.
Spring and summer time it will blow up like a ballon in a heart beat, let alone fly strike. Winter time, if the temperature is below freezing you can allow an hour max, in my opinion. After that the bacteria and gases will certainly start to work, and as has been said, it may look alright. But once hung up I will almost certainly fire the inside by the fillets and haunch area. Meaning it will go a slight green colour.
Eating it yourself, is up to each individual, selling it into the food chain..............No.
Spring and summer time it will blow up like a ballon in a heart beat, let alone fly strike. Winter time, if the temperature is below freezing you can allow an hour max, in my opinion. After that the bacteria and gases will certainly start to work, and as has been said, it may look alright. But once hung up I will almost certainly fire the inside by the fillets and haunch area. Meaning it will go a slight green colour.
Eating it yourself, is up to each individual, selling it into the food chain..............No.
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