Could the shooting community benefit from the new hate crime law in Scotland

[Heym SR20]

Given the sort of language and abuse that some of the population use towards those who participate in fieldsports, and if used similar towards any other minority it would fall into hate speech, could this actually be useful against some of the abuse that is received on a daily by those going about legitimate business.

Scotland’s new hate crime law: what does it cover and why is it controversial?

The government insists the law, coming into force on Monday, is needed to protect victims but critics say it limits freedom of expression

www.theguardian.com

 

[bowji john]

The whole of the UK could benefit from a lot less hate, abandon petty differences fermented by politics and the media

Just get on with their own lives

Look forward with hope not fear

and learn to live with others

Happy Easter

J

 

[Benelli m2]

Wouldn't worry about abuse towards us
When vile labour party get in as they will ban it all

 

[slider]

Given the sort of language and abuse that some of the population use towards those who participate in fieldsports, and if used similar towards any other minority it would fall into hate speech, could this actually be useful against some of the abuse that is received on a daily by those going about legitimate business.

Scotland’s new hate crime law: what does it cover and why is it controversial?

The government insists the law, coming into force on Monday, is needed to protect victims but critics say it limits freedom of expression

www.theguardian.com

don't be silly, the Silly Numptie Party will just decide there is an exception to the law.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Given the sort of language and abuse that some of the population use towards those who participate in fieldsports, and if used similar towards any other minority it would fall into hate speech, could this actually be useful against some of the abuse that is received on a daily by those going about legitimate business.

Scotland’s new hate crime law: what does it cover and why is it controversial?

The government insists the law, coming into force on Monday, is needed to protect victims but critics say it limits freedom of expression

www.theguardian.com

Nope
Shooters are not a recognised protected group .

Unless,,,,, nah !!

 

[caorach]

I think this will be a nightmare for the shooting community, and others. The key to this new, and it really isn't exactly new but has just been extended, legislation is that you don't need to have done anything hateful. All it requires is for someone to phone the police and say that you said something they have decided is hateful. At that point, and without any need for evidence or for the police to talk to you, this will be recorded as a non-criminal hate incident on your record. You will likely not know it is there. How will that play out when you come for renewal? If I wanted to stop shooting in Scotland then I'd give my followers a list of names of people known to shoot and tell them to report these people for hate crime, there is no need for evidence as if someone "perceives" that you've committed a hate crime then the police have to accept that you have. Criminal offences still exist and the courts and police will probably elect to do people for breach of the peace or some other existing offence if they think and actual crime has taken place that requires investigation and might end in court but most "hate crimes" are now going to be "non-crime" events recorded against the person who has been reported as committing them. On your record they will, of course, be "non-crime" events that will be treated as if you've committed a crime and they will appear in record checks if you apply for a job or if you want a visa to travel to the likes of the USA. You have no opportunity to defend yourself against getting a "non-crime" record as no crime has taken place, but yet that record will haunt you for the rest of your life.

I'd suggest that if you live in Scotland then you take yourself over to the Free Speech Union and join up, it might not make any difference in the long run but at least someone is trying and currently they are doing quite well:

Free Speech Union

The Free Speech Union is a non-partisan membership body defending freedom of speech. Join 40,000+ members and let us stand up for your speech rights.

freespeechunion.org

 

[Heym SR20]

I think this will be a nightmare for the shooting community, and others. The key to this new, and it really isn't exactly new but has just been extended, legislation is that you don't need to have done anything hateful. All it requires is for someone to phone the police and say that you said something they have decided is hateful. At that point, and without any need for evidence or for the police to talk to you, this will be recorded as a non-criminal hate incident on your record. You will likely not know it is there. How will that play out when you come for renewal? If I wanted to stop shooting in Scotland then I'd give my followers a list of names of people known to shoot and tell them to report these people for hate crime, there is no need for evidence as if someone "perceives" that you've committed a hate crime then the police have to accept that you have. Criminal offences still exist and the courts and police will probably elect to do people for breach of the peace or some other existing offence if they think and actual crime has taken place that requires investigation and might end in court but most "hate crimes" are now going to be "non-crime" events recorded against the person who has been reported as committing them. On your record they will, of course, be "non-crime" events that will be treated as if you've committed a crime and they will appear in record checks if you apply for a job or if you want a visa to travel to the likes of the USA. You have no opportunity to defend yourself against getting a "non-crime" record as no crime has taken place, but yet that record will haunt you for the rest of your life.

I'd suggest that if you live in Scotland then you take yourself over to the Free Speech Union and join up, it might not make any difference in the long run but at least someone is trying and currently they are doing quite well:

Free Speech Union

The Free Speech Union is a non-partisan membership body defending freedom of speech. Join 40,000+ members and let us stand up for your speech rights.

freespeechunion.org

I understand what you are saying, but there was an individual who too exception to me stalking so he started interfering with my stalking activities and in particular started pestering the landowner and all the horse livery tenants etc.

I did have a word with the police and they in turn spoke to him about interfering with totally legitimate and necessary activities.

Now could we use “hate” crime against such individuals. Frankly the sorts of language that is used about shooters, if they were used about a different race or a religion then that would be deemed a hate crime.

As a sport, occupation etc we need to stop apologising and accepting that it’s ok to demonise field sports.

But yes, suspect probably a silly idea.

 

[caorach]

Now could we use “hate” crime against such individuals. Frankly the sorts of language that is used about shooters, if they were used about a different race or a religion then that would be deemed a hate crime.

I don't think so as the hate crimes apply to protected characteristics and I'm going to be pretty certain that going stalking isn't one of those. However a key point here is that for you to get a record you wouldn't need to do anything at all, all it would take is for an "anti" to say you'd said something about one of their protected characteristics. No evidence is required so it wouldn't be a big deal to phone up and report it.

 

[VSS]

Wouldn't worry about abuse towards us
When vile labour party get in as they will ban it all

I've never noticed any particular difference between the main political parties, to be honest.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Given the sort of language and abuse that some of the population use towards those who participate in fieldsports, and if used similar towards any other minority it would fall into hate speech, could this actually be useful against some of the abuse that is received on a daily by those going about legitimate business.

Scotland’s new hate crime law: what does it cover and why is it controversial?

The government insists the law, coming into force on Monday, is needed to protect victims but critics say it limits freedom of expression

www.theguardian.com

Perhaps we should see how the challenge to de-banking of fieldsports interests goes to gauge whether any credence would be given to any such complaints of hate crime.

I'm sure most of us wouldn't wish to go down this route but to be honest it might be beneficial to get some selective pre-emptive strikes in as it is undeniable this will be used against us. I still can't fathom how the antis get away with the disruption they cause on legal shoots etc.

 

[sauer]

I’ve gone as far as a wee body cam or a go pro … at least get yer phone out and start recording if come across public when out of anything to cover your ar6e , should anything untrue be reported against you

Paul

 

[Dickie]

No because politically we are weak, we are just considered as weirdo’s who love guns and killing not a minority group.

 

[Nimrod1960]

I notice that Nationality is not included in the protected characteristics. Is that so the SNP can continue with their main hate, the English ?

 

[maximus otter]

I notice that Nationality is not included in the protected characteristics.

Yes, it is.

Here’s what the law actually says:

“1 Aggravation of offences by prejudice​

(1) An offence is aggravated by prejudice if—

(a) where there is a specific victim of the offence—

(i) at the time of committing the offence, or immediately before or after doing so, the offender demonstrates malice and ill-will towards the victim, and

(ii) the malice and ill-will is based on the victim’s membership or presumed membership of a group defined by reference to a characteristic mentioned in subsection (2), or

(b) whether or not there is a specific victim of the offence, the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will towards a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to a characteristic mentioned in subsection (2).

(2) The characteristics are—

(a) age,

(b) disability,

(c) race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins,

(d) religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,

(e) sexual orientation,

(f) transgender identity,

(g) variations in sex characteristics.”

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

www.legislation.gov.uk

maximus otter

 

[Nimrod1960]

Thank for clarifying.
How on earth are the police going to deal with the majority of the crowd at Murrayfield ?

 

[jimmy milnes]

As a sport, occupation etc we need to stop apologising and accepting that it’s ok to demonise field sports.

Exactly as I've always been, I'm not breaking any laws so just deal with it.

 

[8x57]

(d) religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,

Couldn't you claim that we are a cultural group?

After all the popular press who could be described as being social influencers often refer to us as being a gun culture.
In my case I regard it more as a religion.

 

[del.gue]

I bet it works more against shooters.
Unproven vexatious claims could lead to revocation of your ticket as an "incident" would still be recorded against you.
Im so glad i retired from the police... what im seeing... i really dont like!

 

[White Spider]

In this case we need to start a religion or cult? The ritual bangs of our guns ward away evil spirits etc. We'll need some sort of Bible, a DSC1 manual will do.

 

[8x57]

I don't know about starting a cult but I do think that we should start partaking more of shooting rituals.
For instance I attended the funeral of Roedinator a well know and well respected site member. He was a member of the English clay team and fellow team members saluted him with a volley outside the church at the end of the funeral. Quite moving.