Poor head quality

[Stephenbuck2489]

Evening all.

Anyone any info on what controls roe buck antler quality?
I.e minerals, feed types, living conditions etc.

As said before , i live on the stunning East lothian coast. I work in one of the countries biggest quarry sites spanning over 1000acre. Fenced, with no public access, therefore deer and general widlife numbers are very high.. often groups of at least 10 roe in a a group, The ground is very open and extremely fertile farmland on the unmined side of the site. And very rich in minerals and new grass on the backfilled side.

But in my 3 years here watching deer almost every day , ive yet to see a decent head going about. I did retrieve an 8 point skull and antlers i found next to a fox set so assume it was an old weak buck.
But never seen anything near that.
Most seem like single spikers. What is it that causes this.
Could overpopulation be a cause?

 

[Pete6.5]

Genetics and good food

 

[lochty]

As above plus shelter.

 

[Mungo]

Evening all.

Anyone any info on what controls roe buck antler quality?
I.e minerals, feed types, living conditions etc.

As said before , i live on the stunning East lothian coast. I work in one of the countries biggest quarry sites spanning over 1000acre. Fenced, with no public access, therefore deer and general widlife numbers are very high.. often groups of at least 10 roe in a a group, The ground is very open and extremely fertile farmland on the unmined side of the site. And very rich in minerals and new grass on the backfilled side.

But in my 3 years here watching deer almost every day , ive yet to see a decent head going about. I did retrieve an 8 point skull and antlers i found next to a fox set so assume it was an old weak buck.
But never seen anything near that.
Most seem like single spikers. What is it that causes this.
Could overpopulation be a cause?

Genetics has a strong effect on shape and growth form, a weaker effect on size/weight.

Food has the strongest effect on size. There is a genetic component to size, but it can be masked by food.

However, number of points per se (rather than overall size) is most strongly controlled by age. Almost all roe bucks should get to 6 points if given enough time. The time taken can vary, and be delayed by a year or two by poor food.

What I strongly suspect is actually happening on your site is that multi point bucks are getting shot!

 

[Heym SR20]

Decent heads take many years and only occur in older bucks that are six if not more years old. Unfortunately most just shoot bucks as and when they see them and they never get a chance to reach full potential.

 

[baguio]

Decent heads take many years and only occur in older bucks that are six if not more years old. Unfortunately most just shoot bucks as and when they see them and they never get a chance to reach full potential.

Oh please Heym. Your idea of decent could be very different from the next man’s. Regardless, a gold medal 6 year old roe buck almost certainly had a very decent head the previous year and probably the year before that too.

 

[KimE]

The most important thing. How does the meat taste?

 

[VSS]

Nutrition has the greatest influence on roe buck heads.
Just because a buck has a good head one year doesn't mean that his head will be as good next year.

 

[baguio]

Nutrition has the greatest influence on roe buck heads.
Just because a buck has a good head one year doesn't mean that his head will be as good next year.

Sorry, but the roe in the Thetford area of Norfolk couldn’t be better fed if they were the main crop. Access to everything from sheep nuts, game feed and cover to high value root crops. You would be hard pushed to find a really good roe buck head amongst the lot of them but the red stags get massive. I would suggest that the genes are a big reason for that in both species?

 

[Lancashire1]

Does anyone shoot on the site?

If I was seeing so many I'd of put a few in the freezer

 

[VSS]

Sorry, but the roe in the Thetford area of Norfolk couldn’t be better fed if they were the main crop. Access to everything from sheep nuts, game feed and cover to high value root crops. You would be hard pushed to find a really good roe buck head amongst the lot of them but the red stags get massive. I would suggest that the genes are a big reason for that in both species?

Sure, the genes will determine the general type of heads produced by a specific population, but variation within that population year on year will be down to nutrition.

 

[Pete6.5]

For all those that say food is the most important thing how come the bucks in the east are rubbish. I guess it's that rubbish food and poor weather

 

[Pete6.5]

Sorry, but the roe in the Thetford area of Norfolk couldn’t be better fed if they were the main crop. Access to everything from sheep nuts, game feed and cover to high value root crops. You would be hard pushed to find a really good roe buck head amongst the lot of them but the red stags get massive. I would suggest that the genes are a big reason for that in both species?

I agree totally but people won't have it. Next thing will be that does are more important than bucks

 

[Stephenbuck2489]

Genetics has a strong effect on shape and growth form, a weaker effect on size/weight.

Food has the strongest effect on size. There is a genetic component to size, but it can be masked by food.

However, number of points per se (rather than overall size) is most strongly controlled by age. Almost all roe bucks should get to 6 points if given enough time. The time taken can vary, and be delayed by a year or two by poor food.

What I strongly suspect is actually happening on your site is that multi point bucks are getting shot!

Nothing gets shot here at all. Company doesn't allow it,(health and saftey) wont even let a guy on site to control pigeons or rats with air rifle. also lots of regulations in regards to shooting the land in the area due to nuclear power station a mile away.

 

[Stephenbuck2489]

The most important thing. How does the meat taste?

Cant shoot them, was just curious as to why there antlers seem small.

 

[Stephenbuck2489]

Does anyone shoot on the site?

If I was seeing so many I'd of put a few in the freezer

As mentioned on a previous comment, no shooting on site, company wont allow, also firearms regulations in place for nuclear site very close by.

 

[Stephenbuck2489]

Sorry, but the roe in the Thetford area of Norfolk couldn’t be better fed if they were the main crop. Access to everything from sheep nuts, game feed and cover to high value root crops. You would be hard pushed to find a really good roe buck head amongst the lot of them but the red stags get massive. I would suggest that the genes are a big reason for that in both species?

This being similar here. The fertile land on our unmined side sees a full array of root crops and cereals flourish each year, as well as fresh grass planted annually as the quarry develops, with a small hardwood and small aged pine wood alongside qlso, so the food is actually pretty decent id say.

 

[Stephenbuck2489]

For all those that say food is the most important thing how come the bucks in the east are rubbish. I guess it's that rubbish food and poor weather

East coast im on also. As i say. Watching qllot of youtube videos of bucks shot in western scotland, galloway, cumbria and the midlands and south of England and they look way bigger. Im not saying all are poor on the east, (im sure someone on here will confirm) but i know the population here doesn't have the best looking growth.

 

[Mungo]

Nothing gets shot here at all. Company doesn't allow it,(health and saftey) wont even let a guy on site to control pigeons or rats with air rifle. also lots of regulations in regards to shooting the land in the area due to nuclear power station a mile away.

Who said it was authorised…!?

East Lothian has something of a reputation for unauthorised deer control.

 

[baguio]

Sure, the genes will determine the general type of heads produced by a specific population, but variation within that population year on year will be down to nutrition.

The shape is normal amongst the mature ones. The size compared to other parts of the country are always small. They never (excluding The beast from the east) have poor nutrition but always have poor genes. Personally, I think the genes have a much greater effect than diet. My reasoning being that I have culled roe in other parts of the country where they have a poorer diet but grow much bigger heads year on year.