Gun ownership in Norway and Britain.

[Robinson]

I have pondered some time over firearms legislation on my side of the fjord, compared to how you British experience this. After what I can read on this forum, the situation isn’t that different between UK and Norway. We both must abide by a permit system, where we apply for permit to buy. And we both need to secure our guns in approve gun cabinets. We for instance, if we are a hunter, can buy 8 hunting guns with no questions asked. We must apply, but there is a “shall issue” clause with these permits. If you are a good guy with no criminal record and no serious psychiatric history, they shall issue the permit. If you want more than the eight guns, you must answer questions. “You already have 8 guns, why on earth do you need another gun?” The answer can be that you plan for a hunting trip to Africa and your deer and moose rifles aren’t up to the big animals you will hunt in Africa. Or other reasons. But you have to document a need for the 9th gun and so on. To become a hunter you need to pass a hunter’s exam. It is a few hours course over 3-4 evenings, with an exam in the end. The exam is for life. And the permit to buy that also of course is a permit to own, is for life. We have in later years experienced a stricter regime towards semi auto rifles. Hunters are still allowed to buy and hunt with semi autos, but not military type large magazine capacity rifles. But then semi auto rifles have never been popular among hunters here. So that the Ruger Mini 14 now is banned as a hunting rifle isn’t a great loss. The only real problem was that the Ruger 10/22 no longer was approved as a hunting rifle anymore. I own one. Fortunately, the legislation allowed for us who already owned one to keep it, and to hunt with it. But no new could be bought by hunters. Buying ammo is very un-bureaucratic. We simply flash our gun permit card and are allowed to buy what we want. I/we can live with this regime. We experience a certain trust from our authorities, though I felt saddened that they claim that hunters really can´t be trusted to own a semi auto 22. That is a tall order. After all cars are the preferred weapon for mass murderers now in Europe, and I own two. But all in all, it's not bad to be a hunter and gun owner here.

 

[Nkawu]

Thanks for the informative write up. I previously lived in South Africa and owned rifles there, as well as now living in the UK. The South African system is very time consuming and laborious compared to the UK but the upside is that the hunting is unparalleled.
@Robinson I have a question for you. Can someone move to Norway from either the UK or EA and apply for a permit?

 

[Donkey Basher]

Ah yes but you must remember that a lot of cars in Norway are electric so they are environmentally green - like copper bullets

I remember going to a shooting range in Oslo in about 2010 & seeing posters everywhere encouraging shooters to surrender machine guns - apparently at the time there 'might' have been quite a few lurking around from WW2, either British kit from the resistance or stuff liberated from the germans who, apparently, had far superior tracer ammo which was quite spectacular when bouncing of rocks on the side of a mountain

 

[Robinson]

@Nkawu If you move to Norway and becomes a resident here and want to hunt, that part is a must if you want to buy a hunting gun, you can apply for a permit to buy a hunting gun. But first you have to register yourself in our national hunters register. Usually we here do that part by taking that hunters exam, but if you can document that you are qualified to hunt in your home country, you dont need our hunters exam. Then you apply for a permit to buy...

 

[Robinson]

@Donkey Basher Ahh..the happy sixties comes to mind. A good time being a boy on the Norwegian countryside in the sixties, with all the guns that floated around in houses and farms. Both guns that came with the British and left there by the Germans. Getting your hands on some cartridges was the ultimate happiness for a boy, since all you had to do then was find a rifle they could be used in. Rifles in those days weren't locked away, but stored propped up under some stairs or in a closet. If dad wasn't around, this rifles was then available for a 12 year old. Good memories...

 

[Rusty Gate]

I have pondered some time over firearms legislation on my side of the fjord, compared to how you British experience this. After what I can read on this forum, the situation isn’t that different between UK and Norway. We both must abide by a permit system, where we apply for permit to buy. And we both need to secure our guns in approve gun cabinets. We for instance, if we are a hunter, can buy 8 hunting guns with no questions asked. We must apply, but there is a “shall issue” clause with these permits. If you are a good guy with no criminal record and no serious psychiatric history, they shall issue the permit. If you want more than the eight guns, you must answer questions. “You already have 8 guns, why on earth do you need another gun?” The answer can be that you plan for a hunting trip to Africa and your deer and moose rifles aren’t up to the big animals you will hunt in Africa. Or other reasons. But you have to document a need for the 9th gun and so on. To become a hunter you need to pass a hunter’s exam. It is a few hours course over 3-4 evenings, with an exam in the end. The exam is for life. And the permit to buy that also of course is a permit to own, is for life. We have in later years experienced a stricter regime towards semi auto rifles. Hunters are still allowed to buy and hunt with semi autos, but not military type large magazine capacity rifles. But then semi auto rifles have never been popular among hunters here. So that the Ruger Mini 14 now is banned as a hunting rifle isn’t a great loss. The only real problem was that the Ruger 10/22 no longer was approved as a hunting rifle anymore. I own one. Fortunately, the legislation allowed for us who already owned one to keep it, and to hunt with it. But no new could be bought by hunters. Buying ammo is very un-bureaucratic. We simply flash our gun permit card and are allowed to buy what we want. I/we can live with this regime. We experience a certain trust from our authorities, though I felt saddened that they claim that hunters really can´t be trusted to own a semi auto 22. That is a tall order. After all cars are the preferred weapon for mass murderers now in Europe, and I own two. But all in all, it's not bad to be a hunter and gun owner here.

We had people killed on a bridge in London a few years back with a car.
Mental health is a wide issue and they will use anything but it’s always the legal gun owner that suffers.
Our pistols have stupid extensions fixed to them making them longer/harder to conceal. We abide by the laws, the criminal isn’t going to make sure his extensions fitted! They’ll just remove it first !

 

[Reddish]

What was the justification for not allowing any more 10/22's in Norway?.In NZ its the other way around you can have as many Ruger 10/22s as you like but a bolt-action .22 with a tube mag that holds more than 10 cartridges is a 'prohibited' firearm!.

 

[Pedro]

It's surprising how firearms legislation is so varied around the world. Or perhaps not. I guess what isn't surprising is that everywhere there are quirky bits of it that defy logic.

You get the feeling in the UK that in order to keep the general public safe, it's always necessary to have legislation that is designed to harass and annoy simple, honest, safe people who possess guns. But it does seem to be a thing that British law in any field is designed to restrict those upstanding citizens and have little or no effect on criminals. Yesterday it transpires that the government has been advising the police to not arrest criminals because there's too many people in prison.

 

[old 30-06]

I really like the Norwegian system. I wish we had some form of "hunter's education" prior to being able to hunt.

 

[VSS]

I really like the Norwegian system. I wish we had some form of "hunter's education" prior to being able to hunt.

Voluntary uptake of training is very high among newcomers to shooting (stalking in particular), so I don't think we need compulsory hunter's education. Self-regulation is better than having it imposed upon us, imo.

 

[old 30-06]

VSS I accept that "the uptake of training is very high among newcomers". By that very statement, not everyone does it. Look on You-tube and you will see many examples of a lack of shooting education. If they were all to pass prior to being able to shoot, they would not be doing it in ignorance.

 

[Heym SR20]

Go back 100 years and there was very little firearms law in the UK.

Restrictions on rifles came in after the First World War. Many millions had come back from the war knowing how to use rifles. And plenty of rifles and pistols of all types would have come back in the hands of soldiers.

At that time there was no distinction between Ireland and England, Wales and Scotland. It was all part of the same kingdom and run from Westminster. In 1917 there had been a bit of bother in Russia when the great unwashed had executed King George V’s cousin, The Tsar of Russia, and over in Dublin, more of the great unwashed had also risen up, and took over the Post Office and caused the Easter risings.

The latter event was a bit too close to home, it lead to home rule in Ireland and ultimately in the 1920’s the partition of Ireland. There was a nasty little civil war in Southern Ireland for a number of years, and the British authorities concluded that it wasn’t safe if the great unwashed had widespread and easy access to rifles. Shotguns - yes, but not rifles. Shotguns are a short range weapon, and not much use against soldiers or police armed with rifles.

Hence the Firearms Act of 1920 was introduced and required who wanted a rifle would have show good reason for possession.

Given that in those days, most of the UK had very few big animals, reason for possession was quite limited.

I suspect there was also strong propaganda against rifles as being the tools of terrorists and enemies of the State.

This was the beginning of the break up of Empire, Canada, Australia and South Africa already had Dominion Status, there was quite a bit of revolt in places like India, Afganisthan, Iraq and closer to home in Spain and Germany. Last thing the British Authorities wanted was plenty of those on our little Islands being armed with rifles and following the example of natives elsewhere in the British Empire. Bear in mind most young men had been trained to use rifles during WW1, so threat, already manifested in Ireland, was very real.

 

[VSS]

VSS I accept that "the uptake of training is very high among newcomers". By that very statement, not everyone does it. Look on You-tube and you will see many examples of a lack of shooting education. If they were all to pass prior to being able to shoot, they would not be doing it in ignorance.

Yes, but gradually it's becoming the accepted norm to do DSC1 or whatever equivalent, so the proportion of "trained hunters" within our ranks is steadily rising, without additional legislation being put in place to achieve it. When a certain critical mass is reached there will naturally come a tipping point when it becomes socially unacceptable within the fieldsports community not to have undertaken some voluntary training (and have the bit of paper to prove it).
I would like to think that, as a responsible sector of society, we can achieve this from within, which, apart from anything else, gives a clear indication of our commitment to the future of safe and sustainable shooting sports in the UK.

 

[Robinson]

You get the feeling in the UK that in order to keep the general public safe, it's always necessary to have legislation that is designed to harass and annoy simple, honest, safe people who possess guns.

If the general public are hunters and gun owners, the politicians wouldn't dare harass them too much, because the cereal public are voters...

 

[Dunwaters]

Yes, but gradually it's becoming the accepted norm to do DSC1 or whatever equivalent, so the proportion of "trained hunters" within our ranks is steadily rising, without additional legislation being put in place to achieve it. When a certain critical mass is reached there will naturally come a tipping point when it becomes socially unacceptable within the fieldsports community not to have undertaken some voluntary training (and have the bit of paper to prove it).
I would like to think that, as a responsible sector of society, we can achieve this from within, which, apart from anything else, gives a clear indication of our commitment to the future of safe and sustainable shooting sports in the UK.

You are alone in Europe and pretty unique in most of the world in not having a mandatory state hunting test/qualification/licence system.
I suspect it’s a throwback to the days of yore when only people of importance were allowed to hunt.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have pondered some time over firearms legislation on my side of the fjord, compared to how you British experience this. After what I can read on this forum, the situation isn’t that different between UK and Norway. We both must abide by a permit system, where we apply for permit to buy. And we both need to secure our guns in approve gun cabinets. We for instance, if we are a hunter, can buy 8 hunting guns with no questions asked. We must apply, but there is a “shall issue” clause with these permits. If you are a good guy with no criminal record and no serious psychiatric history, they shall issue the permit. If you want more than the eight guns, you must answer questions. “You already have 8 guns, why on earth do you need another gun?” The answer can be that you plan for a hunting trip to Africa and your deer and moose rifles aren’t up to the big animals you will hunt in Africa. Or other reasons. But you have to document a need for the 9th gun and so on. To become a hunter you need to pass a hunter’s exam. It is a few hours course over 3-4 evenings, with an exam in the end. The exam is for life. And the permit to buy that also of course is a permit to own, is for life. We have in later years experienced a stricter regime towards semi auto rifles. Hunters are still allowed to buy and hunt with semi autos, but not military type large magazine capacity rifles. But then semi auto rifles have never been popular among hunters here. So that the Ruger Mini 14 now is banned as a hunting rifle isn’t a great loss. The only real problem was that the Ruger 10/22 no longer was approved as a hunting rifle anymore. I own one. Fortunately, the legislation allowed for us who already owned one to keep it, and to hunt with it. But no new could be bought by hunters. Buying ammo is very un-bureaucratic. We simply flash our gun permit card and are allowed to buy what we want. I/we can live with this regime. We experience a certain trust from our authorities, though I felt saddened that they claim that hunters really can´t be trusted to own a semi auto 22. That is a tall order. After all cars are the preferred weapon for mass murderers now in Europe, and I own two. But all in all, it's not bad to be a hunter and gun owner here.

Well i didn't know that cars where the biggest murder weapon in Europe ! Here its said to be the knife but the reason for that is drug dealing and territory disputes and the fact is easy to conceal etc. previous to that it was the hammer . I think the number of firearms to be held is standardised sounds like it could save millions from the police budget here in the UK , it crazy that a guy like me would have to apply permission to swap a 243 for a 6mm Creedmoor or a 308 for a 30-06 , .222 for a 223 etc. etc.
Counting ammo is and always will be crazy , it stops nothing, amount to hold is equally as daft

 

[VSS]

.
Counting ammo is and always will be crazy , it stops nothing, amount to hold is equally as daft

Counting ammo is a once-in-five years exercise, carried out in haste about 10 minutes before the FEO is due to ring the doorbell

 

[Heym SR20]

I have no issue with the suggestion of mandatory hunter training. There is such a requirement in many other walks of life, both recreational and in work / professional. With a set standard, then there is a clear standard that individuals need to meet.

There is no reason why it shouldn’t be set and certified by hunters own organisations. Such as practice is very well understood. For centuries, guilds have been granted the right to set standards for individuals to meet before they can become a member of the guild to practice their trade. Professions have very similar with candidates having to meet and demonstrate levels of competence before they can practice.

If you want to operate any form of machinery in a commercial manner you now need a qualification whether its a forklift or a chainsaw.

In recreation, if you want to fly a glider you need to go through British Gliding Assoc approved training course, similar for diving and many other passtimes.

In target shooting under approved rifle clubs there a syllabus that probationary club members should follow before they can become full members and the club chairman can sign them off to get an FAC.

Most deer stalkers do end up doing DSC1. For game shooting it is somewhat hit and miss. There are courses but……

At very least any body coming into shooting and using a gun should at a minimum be educated in

1) Gun safety and what a projectile coming out of the end of a gun can do. (I frequently hear that 22rimfire and 410s are not dangerous)

2) Basic understanding of law as applied to firearms

3) Quarry identification and seasons. Again I am constantly amazed at how many guns don’t the difference between a mallard and other duck species nor can they tell you which you can shoot.

4) a basic understanding of the ethics and traditions of all forms of shooting.

5) and sufficient competence to select an appropriate quarry, make a safe and clean kill, minimising any suffering. And then what needs to happen to take the carcass into the human food chain.

There is also a huge gap between a good education and simply knowing the answers to pass a tick box test.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have no issue with the suggestion of mandatory hunter training. There is such a requirement in many other walks of life, both recreational and in work / professional. With a set standard, then there is a clear standard that individuals need to meet.

There is no reason why it shouldn’t be set and certified by hunters own organisations. Such as practice is very well understood. For centuries, guilds have been granted the right to set standards for individuals to meet before they can become a member of the guild to practice their trade. Professions have very similar with candidates having to meet and demonstrate levels of competence before they can practice.

If you want to operate any form of machinery in a commercial manner you now need a qualification whether its a forklift or a chainsaw.

In recreation, if you want to fly a glider you need to go through British Gliding Assoc approved training course, similar for diving and many other passtimes.

In target shooting under approved rifle clubs there a syllabus that probationary club members should follow before they can become full members and the club chairman can sign them off to get an FAC.

Most deer stalkers do end up doing DSC1. For game shooting it is somewhat hit and miss. There are courses but……

At very least any body coming into shooting and using a gun should at a minimum be educated in

1) Gun safety and what a projectile coming out of the end of a gun can do. (I frequently hear that 22rimfire and 410s are not dangerous)

2) Basic understanding of law as applied to firearms

3) Quarry identification and seasons. Again I am constantly amazed at how many guns don’t the difference between a mallard and other duck species nor can they tell you which you can shoot.

4) a basic understanding of the ethics and traditions of all forms of shooting.

5) and sufficient competence to select an appropriate quarry, make a safe and clean kill, minimising any suffering. And then what needs to happen to take the carcass into the human food chain.

There is also a huge gap between a good education and simply knowing the answers to pass a tick box test.

410 has the same energy as a 357 i think 22 LR is a favourite of Mosad

 

[Greenmist]

the criminal isn’t going to make sure his extensions fitted! They’ll just remove it first !

No they just buy a normal pistol from a dodgy pub or back alley