Night licence England

[nun_hunter]

Does anyone have experience or a rough estimate for a landowner of how long from applying for a night licence to being granted one takes in England?

A farmer I shoot for (amongst other stalkers too) is looking to apply and I'm wondering if it's something that could be achieved before the fallow doe season this year or if that is unrealistic.

I appreciate this could be a 'how long is a piece of string' question depending on how much of the criteria is met etc but if anyone has experience then it would be handy to know, especially if the timeframe varies from a couple of months to over a year.

 

[Hazlett]

NE's timescale is achievable provided that he/you started early enough in collecting enough evidence of damage and loss, estimated in £/ha if possible. Put a deer management plan together. Photographs of 100+ fallow are more effective than anecdotes of having seen them in the past. NE are constrained by the terms of the licensing process, so you just need to be able to give them what they need.

 

[nun_hunter]

Thanks, that's useful to know as I don't think he's been compiling 'evidence' yet that he could present so I'll pass this on so when he does fill the form out he has this ready to go rather than being asked to produce it and slow things down.

 

[Jagdmatch]

I have the forms filled in but apparently there is a backlog. At the moment due to the seasons it appears you can only apply on the basis of public safety rather than damage. I am going to submit if September and use Section 7 if required.

 

[Hazlett]

Have you downloaded the form yet to see what they ask?
Are you in or near an AONB, for example, that has done drone surveying? Evidence from that is also helpful.
They ask if you've tried tactics such as scarers or fencing. Obviously for fallow that use the whole landscape, fencing is inappropriate, as well as being expensive and not 100% successful. The objective obviously is population management. Also put on a handful of males to cover any Nov fawns or yearlings lying up or in cover where you can't see the penis.

 

[nun_hunter]

I have the forms filled in but apparently there is a backlog. At the moment due to the seasons it appears you can only apply on the basis of public safety rather than damage. I am going to submit if September and use Section 7 if required.

Interesting to know that. Is that due to footpaths being used during the daytime etc? The farm where they're suffering the biggest impact has no public access at all but borders large woodlands and fields which hold the deer during the day.

 

[nun_hunter]

Have you downloaded the form yet to see what they ask?
Are you in or near an AONB, for example, that has done drone surveying? Evidence from that is also helpful.
They ask if you've tried tactics such as scarers or fencing. Obviously for fallow that use the whole landscape, fencing is inappropriate, as well as being expensive and not 100% successful. The objective obviously is population management. Also put on a handful of males to cover any Nov fawns or yearlings lying up or in cover where you can't see the penis.

I've had a look at the form and it was fairly basic so I was wondering just how much detail they need/want for it to be successful, I assume the more info the better than chances.
The farm is within the curtilage of the Ashdown Forest which I believe is an AONB and his neighbour (also a farmer) has successfully got a night licence but I would expect in his situation the public safety aspect would be valid due to the number of footpaths and what else his land is used for during the day.

 

[Hazlett]

Forget public safety, the only basis you will get a night licence is on serious damage to property/crops.

He needs to talk to his farming neighbour and make the case on the form that he is working together with his neighbours. I expect there is a landscape deer management group of landowners, which he would do well to be in touch with for extra info, esp drone survey data.

Apply as soon as you can, even though the licence won't come through until the beginning of the season.

 

[25 Sharps]

I've had a look at the form and it was fairly basic so I was wondering just how much detail they need/want for it to be successful, I assume the more info the better than chances.
The farm is within the curtilage of the Ashdown Forest which I believe is an AONB and his neighbour (also a farmer) has successfully got a night licence but I would expect in his situation the public safety aspect would be valid due to the number of footpaths and what else his land is used for during the day.

Are deer really an issue on public footpaths? I can see large numbers causing road safety issues due to potential for RTAs not so sure on footpaths

 

[devon deer stalker]

Mine took 6 weeks
Plenty of evidence supplied including photos
On the site visit we drove them around, they saw the damage, issued it within 2 weeks
The only pain was they still deal in OS Map references....I educated them in relation to what3words but still had to supply lots of grid refs

 

[Hazlett]

Are deer really an issue on public footpaths? I can see large numbers causing road safety issues due to potential for RTAs not so sure on footpaths

The safety aspect of culling deer on land with footpaths isn't one of the criteria for granting a night licence. The public safety thing is a bit of a sidetrack in this situation since it relates to issues like deer on airfields.

 

[nun_hunter]

Are deer really an issue on public footpaths? I can see large numbers causing road safety issues due to potential for RTAs not so sure on footpaths

No but shooting them on land crossed with footpaths when you're only a mile from a town means they're always busy during daylight hours so more of a risk. At least that's the take I get from it. Also round here with the RTC numbers through the roof there is definitely a public safety aspect that way of looking at it.

 

[nun_hunter]

Forget public safety, the only basis you will get a night licence is on serious damage to property/crops.

He needs to talk to his farming neighbour and make the case on the form that he is working together with his neighbours. I expect there is a landscape deer management group of landowners, which he would do well to be in touch with for extra info, esp drone survey data.

Apply as soon as you can, even though the licence won't come through until the beginning of the season.

He is suffering serious damage to crops and the amount of grass that's being eaten preventing a decent crop of hay for his cattle and sheep.

I'm sure he will be in touch with this particular neighbour as well as others too but at least two direct neighbours are anti shooting (one won't even use barbed wire as it's 'cruel') which is part of the problem combined with vineyards nearby which have installed fencing which has just moved the deer problem on and funneld them elsewhere.

 

[long_range_rob]

I believe the licences are quite specific so if they grant based on named persons shooting using a lamp it means you can’t legally then use nv or thermal.

 

[Hazlett]

at least two direct neighbours are anti shooting (one won't even use barbed wire as it's 'cruel') which is part of the problem combined with vineyards nearby which have installed fencing which has just moved the deer problem on and funneld them elsewhere.

A classicly familiar obstacle to managing fallow but having these sanctuaries will give a good explanation on the form as to why effort during legal hours has had only limited success.

 

[Hazlett]

I believe the licences are quite specific so if they grant based on named persons shooting using a lamp it means you can’t legally then use nv or thermal.

Only thermal riflesights are not permitted. NV is OK.

 

[Chill 123]

Hi Nun hunter
assuming you obtain a night licence to shoot the Fallow . Will the landowner be paying you for the service or will you be paying him a annual rent for the stalking ? For my own opinion I cant see any enjoyment in shooting Fallow in the dark , then having to find them after they have run ,then having to gralloch them in the dark , then having to transport the carcass back to the larder all at the dead of night and then get to bed at some un godly hour .

Chill

 

[Pete6.5]

Hi Nun hunter
assuming you obtain a night licence to shoot the Fallow . Will the landowner be paying you for the service or will you be paying him a annual rent for the stalking ? For my own opinion I cant see any enjoyment in shooting Fallow in the dark , then having to find them after they have run ,then having to gralloch them in the dark , then having to transport the carcass back to the larder all at the dead of night and then get to bed at some un godly hour .

Chill

I agree you would have to be mad to do it unpaid.

 

[sikamalc]

Any night licence issued, must have the shooter/operators name and address on it. It will specify what species to be shot, and also the numbers allowed to be taken of both sexes. Also a start and finish date. They are issued each year by Natural England.

Many think its an easy task to undertake. Its hard work. Plus with Fallow in particular, you may take a reasonable number one evening, but then they soon learn and come out later and later. Then they will often change tactics again, and when you decide to go out at 10pm, they wont show until 3am. Like all deer, they soon learn.

Best practice is supposed to be undertaken when on a night licence, and you should have access too, or have a trained dog to hand. Getting a night licence in southern England is not that hard these days. People often think its a quick fix to reduce deer numbers, its not. Having undertaken it north and south of the borders I would need paying to undertake it these days.

In Scotland you need to be on the fit and competent register, in England NO. But in my opinion any operators should have Level 1 and 2.

 

[25 Sharps]

No but shooting them on land crossed with footpaths when you're only a mile from a town means they're always busy during daylight hours so more of a risk. At least that's the take I get from it. Also round here with the RTC numbers through the roof there is definitely a public safety aspect that way of looking at it.

Fair enough, each situation is different but one of my main permissions is also on the edge of town and is where half of the town walks their dogs or children including off of the footpaths. I can still shoot it perfectly safely.

Lock down was fun when they said people could go out, they one of the byways on the boundary over 1/2 a mile long which would normally have 2-3 cars on it had them parked end to end on the verges both sides. People everywhere!