Steel shot being ingested

[south-nofolk-stalker]

The country side habit is not set up these days for Greys if it was then shoots would put them down and promote them but the Reg legs hold better, A farmer I know released 100 greys never to be seen again.

To keep Greys you need dedicated sharp hard keepers that will trap and kill vermin wholesale 24/7, what I call the proper days of keepering, unfortunately those days are long gone sadly.

 

[Smellydog]

Using lead shot as a possible cause in the decline of grey partridge is perfect in demonstrating the vailed narrative.
It is also is pathetic.
Millions of grey partridge were shot between 1870 to 1950. It started to have issues when agriculture changes and agri chemicals came in. Prior to that they used lead shot!
Go figure....

 

[Bowland blades]

You dont need to be wealthy to shoot pheasants SD - not even to shoot hundreds
Shooting as you know is a community and that provides opportunities

Only paid once as part of a syndicate , basically sharing the cost or rent and feed . Wasn't for me i find driven poor sport, like to get out and find them not have them turfed out a wood at me. Many feel different of course

 

[Heym SR20]

I must admit I do find many of the views expressed on SD quite amusing. It’s a bit like it doesn’t matter if I throw litter out of the car window or I crap in the rivers abd seas as it makes no difference and everyone else is going it including major water companies. Yes Agriculture and industry has had a major effect on wildlife populations.

But personally I take the view that each should take responsibility and minimise their detrimental impact on this little planet.

 

[Dunwaters]

Using lead shot as a possible cause in the decline of grey partridge is perfect in demonstrating the vailed narrative.
It is also is pathetic.
Millions of grey partridge were shot between 1870 to 1950. It started to have issues when agriculture changes and agri chemicals came in. Prior to that they used lead shot!
Go figure....

You asked for evidence, you’ve been referred to literally dozens of studies and sources over a dozen threads and at least 2 years.

You rejected every single one.

And you are still refusing to accept the validity of peer reviewed papers in favour of your own personal opinions.
Here’s a suggestion for study for you to complete yourself, review all those studies that you have rejected and not bothered to read and count the number of studies which support your position.
You can quibble and reject individual papers and studies as much as you like, what you cannot deny is the unanimity in their findings.
Lead is poisonous and we need to move away from its use wherever possible.

 

[Bowland blades]

You asked for evidence, you’ve been referred to literally dozens of studies and sources over a dozen threads and at least 2 years.

You rejected every single one.

And you are still refusing to accept the validity of peer reviewed papers in favour of your own personal opinions.
Here’s a suggestion for study for you to complete yourself, review all those studies that you have rejected and not bothered to read and count the number of studies which support your position.
You can quibble and reject individual papers and studies as much as you like, what you cannot deny is the unanimity in their findings.
Lead is poisonous and we need to move away from its use wherever possible.

I am very positive about none lead ammo in all its forms . Ok there are some junk but that's what you get when the world and his wife are beavering away trying to make the best mouse trap !

 

[Smellydog]

You asked for evidence, you’ve been referred to literally dozens of studies and sources over a dozen threads and at least 2 years.

You rejected every single one.

And you are still refusing to accept the validity of peer reviewed papers in favour of your own personal opinions.
Here’s a suggestion for study for you to complete yourself, review all those studies that you have rejected and not bothered to read and count the number of studies which support your position.
You can quibble and reject individual papers and studies as much as you like, what you cannot deny is the unanimity in their findings.
Lead is poisonous and we need to move away from its use wherever possible.

Have you in your possession any lead based ammunition of any kind?
Do you attend or participate in any hunting/ shooting where upon yourself or associates still use lead ammunition?

 

[Dunwaters]

Have you in your possession any lead based ammunition of any kind?
Do you attend or participate in any hunting/ shooting where upon yourself or associates still use lead ammunition?

Precisely whatdefuc has my use of lead got to do with your rejection of scientific evidence?
However, since you ask, I use lead in my rimfire, I use lead on the clay grounds.
I no longer use lead in my centre fires or for game shooting.
I accept the science and I therefore use the alternatives whenever I can .
In scientific terms, I’m transitioning to lead free .
Can you see the difference between my position and yours?

 

[Smellydog]

Precisely whatdefuc has my use of lead got to do with your rejection of scientific evidence?
However, since you ask, I use lead in my rimfire, I use lead on the clay grounds.
I no longer use lead in my centre fires or for game shooting.
I accept the science and I therefore use the alternatives whenever I can .
In scientific terms, I’m transitioning to lead free .
Can you see the difference between my position and yours?

I see hypocrisy.

Lead is poisonous and we need to move away from its use wherever possible.

I use lead in my rimfire, I use lead on the clay grounds.

Until I see a mad rush to replace every lead water pipe in every home that has them and a mad rush to replace every single piece of lead flashing on buildings and when I see more birds dying from lead poisoning than AI or farming then I may decide to listen.
Until then...

 

[jimmer.13]

I see hypocrisy.
Until I see a mad rush to replace every lead water pipe in every home that has them and a mad rush to replace every single piece of lead flashing on buildings and when I see more birds dying from lead poisoning than AI or farming then I may decide to listen.
Until then...

Couldn’t agree more.

It’s like listening to a bunch of Gretas claiming they have taken the red pill of reality when in reality they OD on the blue pill’s of hypocrisy.

Just stop lead. Just stop oil. Can’t tell em apart

 

[Buchan]

I see hypocrisy.
Until I see a mad rush to replace every lead water pipe in every home that has them and a mad rush to replace every single piece of lead flashing on buildings and when I see more birds dying from lead poisoning than AI or farming then I may decide to listen.
Until then...

There is a drive to replace lead in water pipes. And as this is based on my personal experience so is a single example, you should be able to accept this as absolute proof

 

[LuckyEddie]

I had to go into hospital for a ureteric stent replacement on Monday past.
Usual set of questions..
Nurse - “Your duodenal stent, is it metallic?”
Me - “Not that I’m aware of as I’ve had a MRI”
Nurse - “That’s fine then”

Why the concern regarding metallic implants and MRIs and it’s not the first time I’ve been asked this?
When I got the first duodenal stent, the hospital had to go back to the Korean manufacturer to confirm the composition of the stent before the radiology team would allow an MRI scan to be carried out.

Food for thought!

 

[jall55]

Only paid once as part of a syndicate , basically sharing the cost or rent and feed . Wasn't for me i find driven poor sport, like to get out and find them not have them turfed out a wood at me. Many feel different of course

Nothing easier than shooting them walked up though mate is there ?
Its all pretty easy if you know what you are doing
I like a syndicate because you see the effort that goes in to it - just had a walk on our and amongst the plethora of other stuff i have seen 3 wild broods - lovely

 

[Smellydog]

There is a drive to replace lead in water pipes. And as this is based on my personal experience so is a single example, you should be able to accept this as absolute proof

Mine still in place. No threat of action from anyone...

 

[Smellydog]

Nothing easier than shooting them walked up though mate is there ?
Its all pretty easy if you know what you are doing
I like a syndicate because you see the effort that goes in to it - just had a walk on our and amongst the plethora of other stuff i have seen 3 wild broods - lovely

Beg to differ. I prefer walked up. The birds can fly all roads. Its unpredictable. Get some wild stock and you'll have a job get close enough.

 

[timbrayford]

@jall55 in Denmark there has been sampling done of pheasants and mallard post-lead shot ban and steel shot is now the main shot type that the birds pick up as grit. The scientists raise no concerns about that in the paper.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/48693533

To assess current levels of compliance with Danish regulations, we purchased 730 carcasses of pheasants (Phasianus colchicus) and mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) and a further 690 mallard gizzards were obtained from > 14 shooting events distributed across > 10 local authority districts throughout East and West Denmark in the 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 hunting seasons. All carcasses and gizzards were subject to radiography and those that contained shot were examined, pellets removed by dissection and identified to shot type. In all, 3589 pellets (intact or fragmented) were found in 1420 carcasses/gizzards, of which 799 pellets (some fragmented) were identified. Among the sample of pheasants with embedded shot (N = 447), 1.8% (in 2016) and 2.2% (in 2017) were lead shot. Among 148 mallards in 2017 with embedded shot, 3.1% had lead shot. None of the 2017 mallard gizzards had embedded lead shot. We conclude that Danish pheasant and mallard shooters mostly comply with the lead shot regulations. Steel was the most used non-lead alternative. The majority of ingested shot was non-lead, indicating that lead shot is not generally available to pheasant and mallard and suggesting compliance with regulations in recent years/decades. The study showed that the possibility to predict the metal composition of shot pellets from X-ray images alone was highly inaccurate, confirming the necessity of necropsy to determine shot type.

No partridge chicks in the study then Conor, please do carry on with the anti-quarry shooting agenda, WJ, Packham & the likes must be revelling in it!

 

[Bowland blades]

Nothing easier than shooting them walked up though mate is there ?
Its all pretty easy if you know what you are doing
I like a syndicate because you see the effort that goes in to it - just had a walk on our and amongst the plethora of other stuff i have seen 3 wild broods - lovely

Not sure your take on Easy ? I mean if your carrying an extra few stone - driven should be the guns best bet and a gun buss to get the gun to peg . Of course dont need to shoot the unsporting birds and if your out just you and the dog looking for a brace for dinner , so what if it is the easiest shot ?

 

[Dunwaters]

I see hypocrisy.

I have NEVER claimed to be lead free, I use wherever there is no alternative and I will use the alternatives as they become available.

Until I see a mad rush to replace every lead water pipe in every home that has them and a mad rush to replace every single piece of lead flashing on buildings and

Maybe you should try actually reading some of the available literature.
However, since that is highly unlikely, allow me to summarise the findings of rigorous and numerous scientific studies into the subject on your behalf.
All lead is not the same.
Wild birds are particularly susceptible to poisoning from small particles of lead of less than 5mm in size which they inadvertently consume.
Small particles have a relatively large surface area which makes them more prone to react with, and be absorbed by the consuming bird.
Which can and frequently does kill them.
Birds with gizzards, ie game birds and ducks are particularly susceptible to picking up small shot as part of their diet.
Raptors can consume small shot embedded in the their food but they are also susceptible to the minute particles of lead distributed throughout the wound channel of animals shot with lead ammunition discharged from centre fire rifles.
Wildlife is not generally affected by water supplied through lead pipes
Neither are they affected by sitting on roofs with lead flashing.
The sole source of lead thus far associated with lead poisoning amongst our feathered friends is lead ammunition, not all of it, just small shot and the small particles associated with frangible ammunition.
The only group of people who distribute lead in these forms into the environment is us, hunters and shooters.
The only people who are resisting change is a small minority within the hunting community, people who profess to be ardent conservationists yet refuse to accept that their own personal actions and choices have consequences for all of us.
Negative consequences, on both the personal and environmental scale.

Have a nice day.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Conor
I wonder if we are pressing self destruct with articles like this ?

Judging by some of the feedback about the article on social media I think we need far more articles like that about the evidence, which is clear, and that there is no worldwide conspiracy against shooting since the 1870s just because scientists have been studying and evidencing the impact of lead shot ingestion in birds.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

No partridge chicks in the study then Conor, please do carry on with the anti-quarry shooting agenda, WJ, Packham & the likes must be revelling in it!

Correct - no partridge chicks in that study. The study was in Denmark sampling pheasants and mallard post-lead shot ban and steel shot is now the main shot type that the birds pick up as grit. The scientists raise no concerns about that in the paper.