Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Yeah what ever, I'll take that as a compliment...
Steel shot being ingested
- Thread starter jall55
- Start date
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Are you seriously suggesting that we, the stewards of today’s wildlife, knowingly suppress information directly related to the survival of a threatened species because we don’t like the results of the research?
That’s like saying there has been no one killed by a motor car when they were first introduced - until the first death occurred.
All the radiologists I have spoken to, Hairmyres, Wishaw General and Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh all tell me the same. If one of my stents was to be magnetic in anyway I would not be allowed a MRI - no discussion and not because it distorts the image, it’s because the object can move!
All metallic objects are removed prior to entering the MRI room and even the wheelchair has to be none metallic - do you really think that would cause a distortion on a body scan if it’s 5.0m away?
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
You may.
I’d happily have a couple of pints with you, but we’d need responsible adults to supervise the encounter.
What’s with these muzzle loader things anyway?
Even I don’t use one, although every single bit of outdoor kit I possess is made of cotton, tweed or leather and at least 30 years old.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
You sold your soul maybe
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
You are comparing a stent, i.e. a short, wire mesh tube that acts like a scaffold to help keep your artery open, with a piece of steel shot passing through your intestines. Chalk and cheese does not even come into it. In fact most stents are MRI safe so you really are milking this. The expert medical advice has been given and I too have spoken to many radiologists and I can assure you that you are talking complete nonsense about steel shot. Please stop with the misinformation.
So how well is that going Conor, what is the percentage of shotgun cartridges using non toxic shot suitable for live quarry shooting have been sold year by year since the start of the voluntary transition compared to total sales in the U.K.
Not difficult data to obtain, via the few manufactures and importers.
As simply put if it’s as I suspect around 5% max then the only way to ensure a quantum leap to 99.9% is by banning lead shot.
Post the data prove me wrong.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Probably because it wasn't within their remit to do so, but why has BASC turned on the shooting community in this manner, and why now when this kind of negative publicity might cause maximum damage?
No i need to far far more research
I suppose this "myth" could soon be busted or shown as cause for concern relatively easily and cheaply ?
Put some shot in a dead pig and then MRI it
Any vets on here that could make this happen and dispel or otherwise ?
@Buchan
Not at all Dunwater - i started the thread to see if steel was researched as a safe alternative
Conor can you post the research article by Dr Potts please?
@Conor O'Gorman
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
There appears to be a lack of proportionality on this whole issue, perhaps the real comparison should be between the minimal number of birds affected by ingesting lead derived from shooting activities vs the huge number killed or wounded by being shot at which is the underlying issue with the antis.
I fear that BASC has been well and truly lead up the garden path by John Swift and his chums at Wild justice on this and they have apparently gone well beyond any so called voluntary phase out to attacking the shooting community from within!
Do they not realise that this is merely the thin end of a wedge that leads to the admission by BASC that shooting is cruel? And where is the proof that steel shot is ballistically superior to lead shot delivering a more humane kill and less wounding?
The negative Health & Safety and animal welfare issues surrounding the use of steel shot don't appear to have been taken into account at all do they?
I fear that BASC has been well and truly lead up the garden path by John Swift and his chums at Wild justice on this and they have apparently gone well beyond any so called voluntary phase out to attacking the shooting community from within!
Do they not realise that this is merely the thin end of a wedge that leads to the admission by BASC that shooting is cruel? And where is the proof that steel shot is ballistically superior to lead shot delivering a more humane kill and less wounding?
The negative Health & Safety and animal welfare issues surrounding the use of steel shot don't appear to have been taken into account at all do they?
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Hence Norway's reversal!
The general acceptance of steel shot in as much as "yeah it'll be fine" is a vein attempt to appease the conformist and the anti.
Some alliance that! Paper thin springs to mind.
Not quite sure what you are asking as the thread has become a tad obtuse after your reasonable original question. If it's asking if steel shot can migrate from intestine during MRI, I don't know, and I doubt it. I've had puppies eat needles and them pass through so I doubt a bit of shot, round-ish, will get through the gut wall. It's quite thick and tough as anyone who has eaten chitterlings will tell you!
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
I posted a link and extract to research below on page 2 of the thread, you may have missed it, as you did not comment on it, and since then this thread has gone off topic.
@jall55 in Denmark there has been sampling done of pheasants and mallard post-lead shot ban and steel shot is now the main shot type that the birds pick up as grit. The scientists raise no concerns about that in the paper.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/48693533
To assess current levels of compliance with Danish regulations, we purchased 730 carcasses of pheasants (Phasianus colchicus) and mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) and a further 690 mallard gizzards were obtained from > 14 shooting events distributed across > 10 local authority districts throughout East and West Denmark in the 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 hunting seasons. All carcasses and gizzards were subject to radiography and those that contained shot were examined, pellets removed by dissection and identified to shot type. In all, 3589 pellets (intact or fragmented) were found in 1420 carcasses/gizzards, of which 799 pellets (some fragmented) were identified. Among the sample of pheasants with embedded shot (N = 447), 1.8% (in 2016) and 2.2% (in 2017) were lead shot. Among 148 mallards in 2017 with embedded shot, 3.1% had lead shot. None of the 2017 mallard gizzards had embedded lead shot. We conclude that Danish pheasant and mallard shooters mostly comply with the lead shot regulations. Steel was the most used non-lead alternative. The majority of ingested shot was non-lead, indicating that lead shot is not generally available to pheasant and mallard and suggesting compliance with regulations in recent years/decades. The study showed that the possibility to predict the metal composition of shot pellets from X-ray images alone was highly inaccurate, confirming the necessity of necropsy to determine shot type.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Thanks. And further to that the Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.
I don't see what there is to be concerned about as regards MRIs and steel shot in light of advice from medical experts.
Also, worth noting that there have been no recorded incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in Denmark or USA where steel shot has been used for decades for live quarry shooting.
Hi Conor
Eddie's post and my response to it didn't mention lead shot.
I know we shouldn't believe everything we read on t'internet, but......
Attachments
Our chitterlings were never tough, yours obviously not cooked properly.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Unlikely.You sold your soul maybe
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