And this is why I personally don’t agree with head shots….

[Acm]

I’m afraid I have a bit of an issue with this view point, whilst I don’t actively pursue a headshot I’d happily take one if it’s the most ethical shot presented. It has been the case 10-15 times already this season for roe bucks in cover crops and standing arable crops.
I can totally understand why a dealer will pay more for a head shot deer, having butchered plenty myself I’ll always try to keep a head or neck shot beast.
Mores the point this problem is about knowing your own ability’s, if you practice regularly, shoot vermin regularly or shoot enough deer that you don’t need to do either of the previous two the chances are high you’ll be more than capable of a well placed head shot.

I’d hazard there’s more wounded deer dieing painful slow deaths from badly placed chest shots, gut shots, low chest shots etc etc than there is from poorly placed headshots. Of course they do happen, but so do all of the other poorly placed shots.

 

[Siggy]

I wouldn't have thought that there would be any bone left if that was a rifle bullet. Have shot deer before that have been badly headshot and there's a half moon shaped wound, with all the fine nasal passage bones gone, almost like a scoop has been taken out.
Photo appears to show a severe cut, right down to the bone, and the effects of that.
Just my opinion, I haven't seen it and you have, perhaps "in hand" I would think different.

I think it is a bullet wound, there's not much hard structure there the bullet was probably out before it started expanding significantly, probably crossing the snout nasal passages and never coming near the cranium - which I would agree would give a half moon wound. I could be an exit wound for a small calibre or a glancing blow from something larger.
its pretty messy with signs of infection - so it could be a burst abcess
as you say, hard to tell from a photo.

 

[DVS1]

I appreciate its the choice and preference of the hunter but why do deer have this holy regal thing of anti head shooting?

Surely whether it be a squirrel, rabbit, crow or deer we, as hunters, owe the game/vermin the decency of a quick clean dispatch. A rabbit can move its head just as quick as a deer.

I appreciate that the public are most likely to see a wounded deer over a rabbit but even so.

 

[Happy stalker]

The point is that game dealers by the virtue of them putting a higher price on head shot deer is potentially encouraging someone to take a head shot purely because the game dealer pays more then the inevitable happens the beast running away with its jaw hanging off, I am not against head shots I do it myself but only when the conditions are right ie beasts are laying down and I am in a prone position within my own comfortable range. As has been said missed placed body shots happen too it’s an occupational hazard but encouraging folk to take one of the most difficult shots with a far higher chance of wounding is in my opinion wrong!

 

[Acm]

Shoot this buck this evening only to find it had a massive old wound on its face with the top of its nose missing, and puss just dribbling out its nose. I can only assume that’s it’s a gone wrong head shot…. Poor sod.
I really don’t think people should be so full of them selves and be taking head shots, they’re far too easy to go wrong. However good shot you are, or experienced you are, no one can predict what sudden little movement their head is about to do. This isn’t the first time iv had one with a damaged face. I know we’re trying to control their numbers, but people shouldn’t be cruel when doing so. Is it the fact that game dealers pay less for carcasses with shoulder damage driving this, or the fact that some people are so arrogant and seem to think it’s clever to boast about doing head shots?! Personally I’d rather a damaged shoulder (where there’s limited meat anyway ) and feel pleased that I took a safe shot and didn’t put the deer at risk of being injured but not killed View attachment 377401

The more I look at this the more I think it’s caused by a fence

 

[VSS]

The point is that game dealers by the virtue of them putting a higher price on head shot deer is potentially encouraging someone to take a head shot purely because the game dealer pays more then the inevitable happens the beast running away with its jaw hanging off, I am not against head shots I do it myself but only when the conditions are right ie beasts are laying down and I am in a prone position within my own comfortable range. As has been said missed placed body shots happen too it’s an occupational hazard but encouraging folk to take one of the most difficult shots with a far higher chance of wounding is in my opinion wrong!

The flip side of that argument is that it might encourage stalkers to up their standards, both in terms of marksmanship and fieldcraft?

 

[VSS]

The more I look at this the more I think it’s caused by a fence

That is what I thought. A wire slice.

 

[Happy stalker]

The flip side of that argument is that it might encourage stalkers to up their standards, both in terms of marksmanship and fieldcraft?

I get where you are coming from but is it not better to hone your marksmanship on something that is not potentially going to suffer a slow agonising death.

 

[bob_lee_swagger]

I only ever head shoot deer.

If that shot isn't on I don't shoot it.

Many of us spend a lot of money on rifles, ammo, mounts, optics etc in the pursuit of 0.5 moa or less groups.

So why then the worry on a head shot. Of course everyone's experience and capabilities are different but if your shooting even a 1 moa group a head shot should be no problem.

 

[VSS]

I get where you are coming from but is it not better to hone your marksmanship on something that is not potentially going to suffer a slow agonising death.

Yes, of course. But how well honed does it need to be? If you can consistently shoot a grapefruit off a fencepost at a distance you're comfortable with, then headshots should present no problem.
I can't help but wonder sometimes when I see people posting pics of their sub-moa groups, and claiming they'd never settle for anything less. If those groups really were the norm then headshots would be the norm too. But they're not, so I can only assume that most people aren't half such good shots as they like to think they are. Personally, I am under no illusion. I'm a pretty poor shot, and acknowledge it. But even so, I can shoot well within the parameters required to head shoot fallow up to about 120 yards. (Caveat: I don't generally head shoot wild deer, but I do head shoot all my park deer).
Do you think that perhaps chest shots are just a "get out of jail" card, making it possible for poor shooters to kill deer under the guise of "best practice", when really what they need is more practice!?
I agree with you 100% that no-one should feel pressured to shoot beyond their capabilities, but at the same time there's no harm in encouraging people to improve their capabilities.

(Incidentally, if I was an AGHE I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't head shot. My money, my choice).

 

[Happy stalker]

Head shooting deer purely because the game dealer pays more is wrong no matter how great a shot the person is the potential for a bad result is greatly increased is that simple, obviously my ethics are different from others.

 

[VSS]

Head shooting deer purely because the game dealer pays more is wrong no matter how great a shot the person is the potential for a bad result is greatly increased is that simple, obviously my ethics are different from others.

With the best will in the world, there has to be a difference in price between a head shot carcass and a chest shot carcass, simply because one is worth more than the other. Basic economics.
However, nobody has to headshoot deer in order to get a higher price if they don't want to.
Having said that, if, as stalkers, we want to see carcass prices improve, we need to be a lot more choosy about what gets submitted to AGHEs. Treat them like a disposal service and you can expect rubbish prices.

 

[Happy stalker]

Yip I totally get that but an animal should never need to potentially suffer to achieve that, it’s the same as using ballistic turrets to calculate for taking longer shots when as you said fieldcraft it’s called stalking for a reason it’s not called long range head shooting, I am a man of a certain age probably seen the best of what we do and sadly I don’t like what I am hearing and seeing, I don’t shoot park deer mine are 90% open hill with the remaining in forestry.

 

[Nickb]

I only ever head shoot deer.

If that shot isn't on I don't shoot it.

Many of us spend a lot of money on rifles, ammo, mounts, optics etc in the pursuit of 0.5 moa or less groups.

So why then the worry on a head shot. Of course everyone's experience and capabilities are different but if your shooting even a 1 moa group a head shot should be no problem.

How many have you injured and lost ? Genuine question

 

[Tim.243]

With the best will in the world, there has to be a difference in price between a head shot carcass and a chest shot carcass, simply because one is worth more than the other. Basic economics.
However, nobody has to headshoot deer in order to get a higher price if they don't want to.
Having said that, if, as stalkers, we want to see carcass prices improve, we need to be a lot more choosy about what gets submitted to AGHEs. Treat them like a disposal service and you can expect rubbish prices.

Where do you shoot your fenced/farmed deer and why do you shoot them in the place you do?

 

[kenbro]

Where do you shoot your fenced/farmed deer and why do you shoot them in the place you do?

Thought you’d have worked it out, he shoots them in the fenced area because that is where they are.
Simples.
Kb.

 

[Tim.243]

Thought you’d have worked it out, he shoots them in the fenced area because that is where they are.
Simples.
Kb.

The thread is about Head shooting, it is a bad habit speaking on other peoples behalf Ken.

 

[bob_lee_swagger]

How many have you injured and lost ? Genuine question

Difficult question for me to answer accurately in the sense that I've been shooting deer since I was 18. I'm 39 now.
I spent 8 of those years culling Park deer of which we did 100+ a year. (And they can't escape) The remaining years woodland deer. Maybe I've shot over 1000 deer.
I can't honestly say.
But if I had to guess on injured/lost....
1 to 2%.... its not been a lot.
Take from that what you will.
Lot of variables arguably and based on me, not others shooting abilities, rifle setup etc, distances etc etc.

 

[VSS]

Where do you shoot your fenced/farmed deer and why do you shoot them in the place you do?

I shoot them in the head (80-120yds being typical range) for several reasons:

Firstly, it's easier. Park deer tend to bunch together in a tight group when disturbed, so taking a chest shot is difficult due to overlapping animals and the risk of pass through.

Secondly, I don't want any carcass damage.

Thirdly, it causes less stress to the rest of the herd if the shot animal drops on the spot.

Fourthly, I don't want the risk of a shot deer doing a "death run" and colliding with a fence.

Additionally, if I were to mess up a shot, there's no risk of me not finding the wounded animal.

I have only rarely head shot wild deer. At this stage it wouldn't be my placement of choice for wild deer, but that's down to me knowing my own limitations, not down to any strong opinion for or against head shooting.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Yip I totally get that but an animal should never need to potentially suffer to achieve that, it’s the same as using ballistic turrets to calculate for taking longer shots when as you said fieldcraft it’s called stalking for a reason it’s not called long range head shooting, I am a man of a certain age probably seen the best of what we do and sadly I don’t like what I am hearing and seeing, I don’t shoot park deer mine are 90% open hill with the remaining in forestry.

And shot you take theres potential for it to go wrong and to leave an animal to suffer period. Your bullet might pencil through on a chest shot. You might pull the shot. Your rifle might have lost zero for a thousand reasons. It's not without risk and there's certainly no guarantee that everything will be perfect 100 percent of the time. I've lost animals to chest shots where they've ran in to thick cover and I've been unable to retrieve them. They were certainly dead but that's by the by, I can't confirm it. I've not lost one to a head shot yet.

Now on to ballistic turrets - if they ensure precision what's wrong with them? It's an aid for a longer shot. You might not have the opportunity to get any closer or it might be a shot on an already injured deer. Stick with your 100 yards broadside shots but you can't sit there and judge people for shooting them at a further distance.