And this is why I personally don’t agree with head shots….

[VSS]

I am not arguing anything what I am saying is that game dealers should not be putting money before animal welfare it’s that simple.

Look at the three carcasses below.
Do you honestly think that they should all be paid for at the same rate?
Personally, I think that the stalker who shot the first two was "unethical" in so far as all he cared about was getting a dead deer. He didn't have enough respect for his quarry to care about making a tidy job of it.
The third one was headshot.






If I was buying carcasses I would reject the first two. If you're butchering for home consumption then fine, you can do a lot of trimming and salvage what you can. But I'd be ashamed to take those first two to a game dealer and expect anything other than a token payment (if at all). Wouldn't you be?

(I would happily pay £4/kg in skin for the third one).

 

[Happy stalker]

Look at the three carcasses below.
Do you honestly think that they should all be paid for at the same rate?
Personally, I think that the stalker who shot the first two was "unethical" in so far as all he cared about was getting a dead deer. He didn't have enough respect for his quarry to care about making a tidy job of it.
View attachment 377557

View attachment 377558

View attachment 377559

If I was buying carcasses I would reject the first two. If you're butchering for home consumption then fine, you can do a lot of trimming and salvage what you can. But I'd be ashamed to take those first two to a game dealer and expect any payment. Wouldn't you be?

Yes totally agree, the first thing that should be in any stalkers mind is a 100% focus on culling the animal humanly chest shots have a larger area if the shot is slightly miss placed if the beast moved but a head shot there is such a small area even the slightest movement could be horrific. That’s my point.

 

[VSS]

Yes totally agree, the first thing that should be in any stalkers mind is a 100% focus on culling the animal humanly chest shots have a larger area if the shot is slightly miss placed if the beast moved but a head shot there is such a small area even the slightest movement could be horrific. That’s my point.

I think there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong, whatever shot placement you use.
Generally people are happy to share photos of targets that evidence tiny groups. Yet the same people still manage to miss deer that are stood broadside on!
It doesn't make sense really, does it?

I would just encourage stalkers to be honest with themselves when assessing their own ability, and don't shoot beyond your capability.
If that means accepting a lower price for carcases then so be it, but don't condemn those stalkers who have the skill to ethically produce higher value carcasses.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

People wishing to place restrictions on other folk due to their own preference/opinion instead of making the right personal choice according to their own abilities.

 

[Happy stalker]

I think there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong, whatever shot placement you use.
Generally people are happy to share photos of targets that evidence tiny groups. Yet people still manage to miss deer that are stood broadside on!
It doesn't make sense really, does it?

I would just encourage stalkers to be honest with themselves when assessing their own ability, and don't shoot beyond your capability.
If that means accepting a lower price for carcases then so be it, but don't condemn those stalkers who have the skill to ethically produce higher value carcasses.

Your right

 

[25 Sharps]

That's interesting, thanks.
I wouldn't advise anyone to take headshots. In fact, I would caution against it. Only the individual shooter can make the decision, based on their own honest appraisal of their own capabilities. But anyone who's got the necessary skill to do so, with consistent results, and produce damage free carcasses, shouldn't ever be criticised for doing so.
And there certainly shouldn't be any grumbling about game dealers paying a premium for better carcasses. Nobody is forcing anyone to take unethical shots. If you choose to chest shoot, then you choose to accept the chest shot price, and be happy with it.

I have and will I’ll take them, but only at sensible ranges when it’s right. It’s never my first choice, if a chest shot is available that’s what I take.

I only shoot for personal consumption with excess going to friends, family and colleagues so if the carcass is shot up then it doesn’t really bother me.

 

[25 Sharps]

I am not arguing anything what I am saying is that game dealers should not be putting money before animal welfare it’s that simple.
The photo you posted **** happens but at least the beast was down, unlike a head shot taken because a game dealer dictated it with the real potential to go horribly wrong so it’s not an argument it’s my opinion I think I have enough years behind me in this game to know what is right or wrong animal welfare should always come before money anyone who doesn’t agree with that is not worth talking to

But if the game dealer is only paying a premium for head shot deer then it’s down to the stalker to make the choice, it’s not the dealer’s fault.

 

[bob_lee_swagger]

Head shooting is fine when the beast is facing away from you. These clowns that shoot them straight in the face in or side on need there dmq and ground they stalk on taken off them! It’s just not the correct shot to take and desperation to shoot at something.

When side on just behind the eye is an excellent placement for a head shot

 

[Happy stalker]

But if the game dealer is only paying a premium for head shot deer then it’s down to the stalker to make the choice, it’s not the dealer’s fault.

Your right

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Your right

In my humble opinion,it depends on your ability with a rifle. Back in 70s,I started working with a Head keeper on my local estate,and he could shoot relatively small stones at 4-500 yards. And,that was way before ballistic calculation came on to the scene. He is long since dead,but that man has been my bench mark ever since when it comes to rifle shooting. Rifle shooting is the same as shotgun shooting,some people can head or neck shoot deer without it going badly wrong. It all comes down to ability. The reference to shotgun shooting? George Digweed is the best shotgun shooter of all time,but it Comes down to HIS ability with the same shotgun we can all buy! Rifle shooting is the same,some people can make head or neck shots and don't think anything of it. There will always be people at the top of their chosen sport,and people less able. Just because you can't do it,it doesn't mean no one else can. I learnt that many years ago.

 

[Dunwaters]

I love threads where someone who won’t or can’t do something tries to convince those who can and do that they’re wrong.
And that’s the nub of the matter, if you can’t, won’t and don’t do it yourself you have no basis for criticism of those that do.
Head shots and high neck shots work with a high degree of lethality and result in a clean premium quality carcass at home or at the dealer.
In my opinion that qualifies as “ best practice “.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

I love threads where someone who won’t or can’t do something tries to convince those who can and do that they’re wrong.
And that’s the nub of the matter, if you can’t, won’t and don’t do it yourself you have no basis for criticism of those that do.
Head shots and high neck shots work with a high degree of lethality and result in a clean premium quality carcass at home or at the dealer.
In my opinion that qualifies as “ best practice “.

Back in the 70s,I used to stalk rabbits with an air rifle,and get within 30-40 yards,and head shoot 8 out of ten freehand. Back then,I used to consider resting on anything,cheating. And now? If I try a free hand shot,I move more than Harry Potters wand!

 

[Smellydog]

I think it was a crossbow bolt ............
.......what?

 

[Pete6.5]

I am not arguing anything what I am saying is that game dealers should not be putting money before animal welfare it’s that simple.
The photo you posted **** happens but at least the beast was down, unlike a head shot taken because a game dealer dictated it with the real potential to go horribly wrong so it’s not an argument it’s my opinion I think I have enough years behind me in this game to know what is right or wrong animal welfare should always come before money anyone who doesn’t agree with that is not worth talking to

I agree with you to a point but are you saying game dealers should pay the lowest price for everything or do you think they should give the head shot price for everything.

 

[Dunwaters]

Back in the 70s,I used to stalk rabbits with an air rifle,and get within 30-40 yards,and head shoot 8 out of ten freehand. Back then,I used to consider resting on anything,cheating. And now? If I try a free hand shot,I move more than Harry Potters

Old age is bitch.
But the alternative is worse,up to a certain point anyway.

 

[Bowland blades]

looks like its had its nose tangled fast in a "farmer fixed" bodged fence repair - though we will never know. All shots can and do go wrong , when head shots go wrong as said ( the head is a very mobile and unpredictable part of a deer ) their heads are literally on a swivel at a noise or scent. I have taken them in the past and i will in the future IF THERE IS A PRACTIACAL REASON and that's not a shorter run and its not because someone will pay more for head shot beasts .

 

[25 Sharps]

When side on just behind the eye is an excellent placement for a head shot

As long as you don’t pull it low or the deer moves its head up, then you’ve blown the jaw off….

 

[ASl sniper.177]

looks like its had its nose tangled fast in a "farmer fixed" bodged fence repair - though we will never know. All shots can and do go wrong , when head shots go wrong as said ( the head is a very mobile and unpredictable part of a deer ) their heads are literally on a swivel at a noise or scent. I have taken them in the past and i will in the future IF THERE IS A PRACTIACAL REASON and that's not a shorter run and its not because someone will pay more for head shot beasts .

We've just had a new potential buyer for our deer park shot deer. Criteria? Head or neck shot with copper. They may consider chest shot with copper,but it doesn't sound like it will happen. The long and short of this thread,venison is massively undersold as a food source.

 

[Sakoodin1]

When side on just behind the eye is an excellent placement for a head shot

You would of got hoofed out of eskdamuir faster than your feet could of hit the clutch of Ronnie if that had happened when we worked there

 

[Sakoodin1]

I shoot foxes front on in the head as often that is the only bit poking up looking at you from the grass/tram line.

I was in about deer not foxes to be fair, the foxes muzzle probably doesn’t stop a small call bullet the way a deer muzzle does! I’ve seen a a few deer running around with there face or jaw half blown off. And you have to take into account the human factor also. It doesn’t take much to make a mess of it so it’s still a no from me on deer to shoot them side/face on