The differences in training and tracking with a deerdog as compared to an BMH/HS.

[barongcw]

Having watched the vid
Just remember these dogs take a bit longer to mature so it may take atleast a year longer to achieve the end goal
Lead work is easy if you take it slowly

Not certain I agree with you that BMH/HS "take longer to mature". Both Society imposes tests at 12 months which, if passed, make a dog ready for all work bar the chase.

I have seen some young labradors at field trials but I cannot recollect ever having seen a 12 month old one competing in an open trial.

 

[stone]

I think that 12 months old is to young for any dog to be classed as mature but 14 months old is a different matter when it comes to some breeds as they can mature quicker than others
Most BMH's I hav seen and spoken to their owners work on about two and a half years to be at the same level
Which is why I suggested about taking a bit more time
No point ruining a good dog by rushing
As for field trailing dogs, it's all about a competition and training a dog for that is a lot easier than most think
But trials are just that a competition and it don't matter what age you enter a dog aslong as the handler thinks it is able to compete ,then that is what counts

 

[barongcw]

I think that 12 months old is to young for any dog to be classed as mature but 14 months old is a different matter when it comes to some breeds as they can mature quicker than others

Certainly agree with the mature bit. I also guess that they do not yet have the stamina to work out a really long trail.

 

[6pointer]

I was trying to bring a bit of light heartiness to a subject that to me is just an ongoing process. Stone it will not matter to me if she takes a while training is part of the fun. With regards a hare or live deer getting up that is something that she will come across again and has been ok in the past.better introducing problems like other animals at a young age when you can guide them down the correct path.

Not quite Beethoven but i am more of a beyonce fan my self.




just to put a few more shivers down your spine Baron

 

[barongcw]

I was trying to bring a bit of light heartiness to a subject that to me is just an ongoing process. Stone it will not matter to me if she takes a while training is part of the fun. With regards a hare or live deer getting up that is something that she will come across again and has been ok in the past.better introducing problems like other animals at a young age when you can guide them down the correct path.

Not quite Beethoven but i am more of a beyonce fan my self.




just to put a few more shivers down your spine Baron

Seems to me a bit difficult to guide a dog when she is off the lead. Shades of that dog in Richmond Park!

As for Beyonce, googled her and see that she is pregnant. Are you trying to tell us something but are too modest about it?

 

[sikamalc]

After over 5 years of working Todd I can honestly say that a BMH does take about 2 + years before they come into their own. This was also told to me by the man who introduced me to the breed and probably knows more about the breed than anyone on this site.

They are by nature not an easy dog to train, hounds can be stubborn and forever have their nose on the floor. I work Todd off the lead and yes there have been a few times when he has gone after the wrong deer. But that was when he was young, and now, well just ask people like Robin, Wadashot, Tikka308 to name but a few that have seen Todd work. They are very loving dogs and are phenominal trackers and as with all dogs its a matter of patience and learning also from the dog itself as BMH teach you in my book.

As for Stones comment well at times it pays to think about how and what you are writing before writing it down. As I have been in this game a good many years one gets used to the odd comment. Dragging a good size Red this year was a pain, but as it is an area of ssci I am not allowed to use a quad inside the forest, and the American client I had did help Experience counts, and having stalked the highlands for many years I hope to still be at it for a lot longer.

 

[stone]

Davie
I know what your are doing but in reality it will not work
The Baron is dedicated and deserves more credit than you give him
Lest not hope you are not depicted as the BMH owner of the future
You look like you hav a good dog , and with your vids and advice from others there will be more dedicated tracking dogs trained to a better standard that will make a difference

 

[sikamalc]

And what exactly is the BMH owner of the future Richard. I find it a rather odd comment made by someone who does not own one!!

 

[stone]

One that does not try to wind another owner up just because they hav a different idea on how they want their dog to work

 

[barongcw]

After over 5 years of working Todd I can honestly say that a BMH does take about 2 + years before they come into their own. This was also told to me by the man who introduced me to the breed and probably knows more about the breed than anyone on this site.

They are by nature not an easy dog to train, hounds can be stubborn and forever have their nose on the floor..

I have learned on this website to be cautious as there are some real experts about and I do not know if you have spend a few years in Germany or whom you talked to but I would argue that there is nobody in the UK who is remotely as knowledgeable as for instance Gunter Luedwigs or some of the other experts there. But then they have been doing their game for 50 years or so.

Obviously it takes a few years to get a dog to the desired level, a mix of training and practical experience. If I read it rightly the discussion was if an HS/BMS took longer than another breed to be at good working level. That I do not believe.

But your second remark really puzzles me, I put it in bold. Thank God a HS/BMH always has his nose on the ground. That is were the nose should be as that is were the scent is.

Your posts read you as far too experienced not to know that so I can only hope that you are not using your dog as a deerdog. Or have I missed something?

 

[barongcw]

One that does not try to wind another owner up just because they hav a different idea on how they want their dog to work

It seems to me ,dear friends, that you are winding up one another. I am not in the slightest upset as I like blunt commments.

 

[Wolverine]

A hounds nose SHOULD be on the floor that's where they have been bred to be
Clue in name,scenthound!

 

[barongcw]

A hounds nose SHOULD be on the floor that's where they have been bred to be
Clue in name,scenthound!

Great minds think alike!

 

[sikamalc]

What I meant by a BMH having its head on the ground all the time is that as a hound they can be head strong and ignore commands. I am not going to make further comments about who I know as the man that introduced me into the breed has visited Bavaria on numerous occassions and is a private individual who is not a member of this site, and also has battled the big C over a few years now.

Richard there is no wind up from Davie here, just strong views which as long as they are put politely I and admin have no issue with.

 

[jamross65]

Firstly, as I have said before, I have no experience with scenthounds. I assume though, that the dog will walk to heal if trained to do so, and switch on to it's 'work' when asked to? Is that not the 'trigger' in placing a harness or collar on the animal?

 

[Wolverine]

Hounds should not air scent like a deer dog does
True scenthounds are just that,taken after the shot to follow up wounded beasts,perhaps as long ago as 5 days
Air scenting is seen as a fault

 

[sikamalc]

A fault to air scent? There have been one or two occassions where my dog has used air scent when a client has gut shot a deer and found it everytime. Seems as though I have trained my dog wrong then never mind he produces the goods and I love him to death

 

[stone]

Baron
I hav no intention to wind any one up
I luv working dogs and relish the challenge to work out why others train dogs different from my self
Infact I hav learnt a lot from following the likes of Todd. As Malc as actually posted a few of his exploits
In bygone times I may of thought different , but now see a different side to all sides
I could keep stummed but how would I learn any further
Dogs are my life and trust me when I hav seen a few

 

[stone]

A fault to air scent? There have been one or two occassions where my dog has used air scent when a client has gut shot a deer and found it everytime. Seems as though I have trained my dog wrong then never mind he produces the goods and I love him to death

Totally agree
Scent hounds need to air scent to keep the scent alive

 

[barongcw]

Firstly, as I have said before, I have no experience with scenthounds. I assume though, that the dog will walk to heal if trained to do so, and switch on to it's 'work' when asked to? Is that not the 'trigger' in placing a harness or collar on the animal?

Yes walking to heel no bother at all but the dog should not really be working on a hot scent. not till it has done a lot of work as working a hot scent is much, much easier. There should be at least 4 hours between the shot and the beginning of the search. (Syrotek again). That is if you do it the "classical" way.

And indeed the harness or collar is the trigger combined with your investigations on the shotplace.