Ineos Grenadier halts production

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I have never really seen the point of the Ineos, as other posters have pointed out, it's a bit of a mish-mash designed by committee vehicle which seems ultimately flawed in many respects, but more because £90K opens up a hell of a field for far, FAR better alternatives. A good used Toyota Landcruiser would be right at the top of my list if I wanted something similar, perhaps an older utilitarian "Troopy" 70 series. You would have change for a small house extension, years of holidays, a lot of stalking or whatever you wanted to do with the change.
 
Shabz said:
I’m absolutely happy to use new tech when it is actually better. I just haven’t found much that is yet. It’s a risk assessment thing for me. I go to fairly remote places that I need to get back from. If I drive an auto and the battery dies, then I’m screwed. I can bump start a manual and drive home.
If I have traction control instead of diff locks and a low box, I’m screwed if it stops working. They can stop working because of an ABS sensor. There’s no back up. That might be the difference between getting home and not. The tech isn’t worse, it’s just not better and is less reliable.

I know a guy who took his new defender camping and fishing for a few days. He killed the battery by opening and closing the doors too many times. You can’t even just jump start them, they need to be connected to the internet to recalibrate.
If I’m going to the shops or out for a day somewhere, then I’ll take a new defender every single time but if I need to go somewhere that it would be hard for me to get back from, then I want to have a plan b for when it goes tits up.
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I could almost empathise with some of that but not all.

I drive a td5 defender at a shoot twice a week with proper off-roading in some places and use a hilux auto as my own car
I keep a small jump pack in the hilux but regardless of that , it’s far better off-road in the vast majority of situations
It has a locking diff and low ratio and new autos simply stay in the correct gear for the situation at all times.
( 7 beaters and dogs onboard trying to climb a steep grass hill and going for second gear is a nightmare 😂)
Chelsea tractors are exempt from this discussion cause they are mainly stupid cars that no one would buy as an off-roader anyway.

I will wind my neck in though as I don’t want to be insulting ( hopefully I haven’t)
 
ChesterP said:
I have never really seen the point of the Ineos, as other posters have pointed out, it's a bit of a mish-mash designed by committee vehicle which seems ultimately flawed in many respects, but more because £90K opens up a hell of a field for far, FAR better alternatives. A good used Toyota Landcruiser would be right at the top of my list if I wanted something similar, perhaps an older utilitarian "Troopy" 70 series. You would have change for a small house extension, years of holidays, a lot of stalking or whatever you wanted to do with the change.
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If it had been priced affordably it would make a huge amount of sense
 
Rake Aboot said:
If it had been priced affordably it would make a huge amount of sense
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Personally speaking (not an objective statement) even had it been £40K, I'd still rather have a good used Landcruiser instead. Tried, tested, brilliant at the off road stuff and built to last.....without overly compromising on road manners.
 
Rake Aboot said:
I could almost empathise with some of that but not all.

I drive a td5 defender at a shoot twice a week with proper off-roading in some places and use a hilux auto as my own car
I keep a small jump pack in the hilux but regardless of that , it’s far better off-road in the vast majority of situations
It has a locking diff and low ratio and new autos simply stay in the correct gear for the situation at all times.
( 7 beaters and dogs onboard trying to climb a steep grass hill and going for second gear is a nightmare 😂)
Chelsea tractors are exempt from this discussion cause they are mainly stupid cars that no one would buy as an off-roader anyway.

I will wind my neck in though as I don’t want to be insulting ( hopefully I haven’t)
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I’m never insulted, it’s only the internet innit. You’re right as well of course, I don’t like a lot of these things simply because they’re different. My wife has an auto merc which is lovely to drive but my mate has an Amarok that hasn’t a clue what gear to be in.

I also have a hilux which I agree is much better than defenders and discovery’s that I’ve had in the past. Mine is a manual and mainly better because of the diff lock and the reduced threat of deep vein thrombosis. I did like the 300tdi disco though, that was decent.
 
JTO said:
Sounds like the original RAV4.
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That and the Mk2 were imho the best do it all rav 4's. Brilliant little things. Mine would go most places with decent tyres fitted and just kept on going. Rust was the eventual downfall...the rear well in the back rotted through eventually but that could have been sorted.
 
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ChesterP said:
Personally speaking (not an objective statement) even had it been £40K, I'd still rather have a good used Landcruiser instead. Tried, tested, brilliant at the off road stuff and built to last.....without overly compromising on road manners.
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I would have bought one at £40k. Top of the range pick ups are £50k nowadays.

I bought the most basic hilux- vinyl interior and generally poverty spec for £27k. I’d have bought a similar spec grenadier for £40k long before I’d buy an invincible. I’d have bought a uk Land Cruiser (prado) but liked the idea of the solid front axle in the Grenadier.

I thought they were going to build a replacement for the old defender. A classless, useable, cool vehicle that I could work on myself and keep for 25 years before giving it to my grandkids.

They built a less comfortable, slightly more reliable Range Rover.
 
Shabz said:
I would have bought one at £40k. Top of the range pick ups are £50k nowadays.

I bought the most basic hilux- vinyl interior and generally poverty spec for £27k. I’d have bought a similar spec grenadier for £40k long before I’d buy an invincible. I’d have bought a uk Land Cruiser (prado) but liked the idea of the solid front axle in the Grenadier.

I thought they were going to build a replacement for the old defender. A classless, useable, cool vehicle that I could work on myself and keep for 25 years before giving it to my grandkids.

They built a less comfortable, slightly more reliable Range Rover.
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it’s nothing like a range rover 😂
 
Shabz said:
I’m absolutely happy to use new tech when it is actually better. I just haven’t found much that is yet. It’s a risk assessment thing for me I can bump start a manual and drive home.
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I actually, once upon a time, did have a car with a starting handle and the corresponding hole in the front bumper, the radiator mounted to allow the handle to pass, the "boss" on the front of the engine. Used to drive over the field and track near my pond to carry stuff about. I was maybe age fourteen at the time. So 1971?

And yes it did work, as it came like that, all set up, from the factory. And I used it quite often..thumb out...as the vehicle wouldn't otherwise be used for weeks so the battery often went near flat. It was an early no longer roadworthy Morris Traveller. The later made ones still had the hole in the front bumper but they changed the position of the radiator so no longer could you do it. And no "boss" on the engine.

So my 2p worth would be always better to have a thing (or the ability to do that thing) and not need it than to need it and not have it. Starting handles maybe old tech but even so you could start the vehicle stationary on your own if you had neither a convenient hill nor a convenient length of roadway.

Bump starting over single handed over either cinder track (there's not enough grip on the tyres when you let the clutch out) or ridge and furrow fields isn't practical or possible. A starting handle becomes a Godsend then.
 
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Kalahari said:
Very difficult to bumpstart an auto anywhere.

David.
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Very difficult in a modern diesel engine any where. Indeed bump starting a diesel is a very good way of bending something. If you need to jump start a car you have either left all the lights and ignition on, or the battery is buggered and thats poor maintenance.
 
In the UK I suspect the decision is really between the Land Rover Defender and the Grenadier, and given that in the UK the vast majority of driving is on road I suspect the Defender will win quite easily in the off roader but good long distance family car. Both have similar towing capacities, load carrying and off road capabilities etc.

However you have to go to places such Australia, Africa, Middle East and the Americas for where cars like Grenadier are really needed.

And in these markets (albeit Not in North America) the Landcruiser has reigned supreme for a very long time, although the G Wagen also has a presence but not in great numbers.

We can discount the Landcruiser 300 series. This is a big luxury SUV with independent front suspension.

The real competition is the Landcruiser 70 series. The latest version is priced in the mid Aus $80k

The Grenadier is $100 plus, Fieldmaster spec is $120 odd.

But and its a big but, the landcruiser in station wagon and troop carrier will only be available in 4 cylinder, 6 speed auto format, as the v8 is being phased out. And the landcruiser is leaf sprung and really needs upgrades to springs, wheels and tires before its comfortable. And its interior is still very crude and basic. Especially when compared to Grenadier.

Grenadier is pre wired for all sorts of accessories etc.

So if were in the overland market its probably six of one and two threes to end up with a similar vehicle in terms of price.

Ronny Dahl has recently done a series of videos testing the new 70 series station wagon and the grenadier on long distance gravel and back country roads in Western Australia. The Grenadier seems a much more effortless vehicle to drive, and its one really big advantage is its permanent all wheel drive transmission. The land cruiser is still a two wheel vehicle, with a manual shift into 4 wheel drive.

The Land cruiser is the cheaper option for NGO fleets, and mine support. They last 20 years and survive poor driving. The 4cylinder and auto box, is simpler than the V8 Manual and much easier to drive, especially in trigger conditions. When you are under fire and transporting wounded or aid supplies with a driver who is **** scared, an auto box in 4x4 means you can get out of most things. Manual and sand or mud, unless you have the correct gear you can very easily get stuck, and thats not good for the sorts of places where these things end up.

With The Grenadier, the high initial spec will mean it will bought in fewer numbers at first. Coil springs mean a much better ride. It’s same sort of space as the older G Wagen Professionals - like the old Defender, but better built, better comfort, better performance, better suspension but a 50% higher price tag.

At the moment when production capacity is limited and you have plenty of wealthy buyers wanting such a car it makes sense to keep the spec and price high. It’s real competition is probably the specced up custom resto mods on old Defenders, and I suspect Grenadier will be a better longer lasting solution - buts its not a custom defender.

Or it will bought instead of Landcruiser 300 series, where the owner or operator wants a vehicle that has the toughness of solid front axles etc. but good comfort for transporting engineers, doctors, government officials - the role that the Landcruiser 80, 90 and 100 series used to occupy, but that the 300 doesn’t.
 
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