Bioammo Blue
- Thread starter georgedoubleyou
- Start date
I’d be interested if someone could actually weigh a bioammo pellet of a particular size and compare it to others.
They say similar to lead but I find that hard to believe unless it contains a lot of bismuth, which the price suggest they don’t (they’re expensive, but still less than half the price of bismuth).
Looking at densities.
Lead is 11.34 g/cm3
They claim this is made from bismuth, zinc, tin and aluminium, which are.
Bismuth 9.8 g/cm3
Tin 7.29 g/cm3
Zinc 7.13 g/cm3
Aluminium 2.7 g/cm3
Iron, for contrast, is 7.87 g/cm3.
So, only bismuth is denser than steel shot (which I understand is close to pure iron to keep it as soft as possible).
This makes me doubt it’s ballistically superior to steel, leaving the main appeal being it is a better ‘like for like’ replacement for guns that aren’t HP steel proofed.
Just my thoughts, happy to be proved wrong.
They say similar to lead but I find that hard to believe unless it contains a lot of bismuth, which the price suggest they don’t (they’re expensive, but still less than half the price of bismuth).
Looking at densities.
Lead is 11.34 g/cm3
They claim this is made from bismuth, zinc, tin and aluminium, which are.
Bismuth 9.8 g/cm3
Tin 7.29 g/cm3
Zinc 7.13 g/cm3
Aluminium 2.7 g/cm3
Iron, for contrast, is 7.87 g/cm3.
So, only bismuth is denser than steel shot (which I understand is close to pure iron to keep it as soft as possible).
This makes me doubt it’s ballistically superior to steel, leaving the main appeal being it is a better ‘like for like’ replacement for guns that aren’t HP steel proofed.
Just my thoughts, happy to be proved wrong.
georgedoubleyou
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more! These "Extreme high pheasant shoots" seem to be getting more and more popular is something I feel very strongly about.
I know the limits of my capabilities and I can assure you its far lower than the ability of any cartridge!
I was given 2 boxes of bio ammo 5 27gr to try on a beaters day a couple of years ago, the first 5 ducks I shot were "divers" with broken wings so I went back to Gamebore black gold steel and used the rest up shooting clays. Or maybe I just cant shoot !!. There seems to be so much talk of going "under gunned" on Red stags and big Fallow but no one seems to care when it comes to the use of non toxic shot in shotguns.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Ever since lead shot was first produced it has suffered one very big major issue - its softness, and as the pellets are propelled down the barrel they get deformed and once in the air they do not fly straight. So for the last 150 odd years many different devices have developed. Firstly choke that squeezes the shot charge into a tighter pattern. Then the shot cup, which protects the shot and keeps it together for a few more yards. Then antimony is added to make the lead shot harder. Then we add copper coatings.
Lead is recognised as pretty toxic. Antimony is a lot worse.
On the other hand steel shot is hard. What is actually used for pellets is iron shot so its not hard as heat treated die level of hardens, but soft malleable iron. But it doesn’t deform as it goes down the barrel, so you don’t get the level of fliers as you do with lead. It’s less dense than lead so you get a significantly larger number of pellets per oz of shot (with the same size if pellets), and this combined with lack of deformation gives you significantly denser patterns thus more pellet impacts. Even going up a shot size or two, you still get a denser pattern.
Most steel shot does start off at a higher velocity than lead, so their kinetic energy is higher, and given that energy is the square of the velocity a little increase in velocity gives a significant increase in energy - increase vel by 10 units of vel, energy increase by 100 units.
So with a combination of larger shot size, more pellets on target aand a slightly higher initial velocity, the steel cartridge will perform out to similar levels as lead.
Where I think a lot of the challenges/ dislikes of steel arise, is that its velocity profile is different to a lead cartridge. And this means that the ingrained timing that we have become so used to will change and will take time to get used to.
But this is really no different to changing brand of cartridges. Everybody does have a favourite which they feel confident with. I suspect if took the same load and changed the colour and branding on the case we would struggle for a box or three until your head dialed back in - even though nothing has changed.
And I suspect if I took a box of your favourite Eley Grandprix, or Gamebore Regal, and switched the cartridges for their steel equivalent in the same brand, I doubt you would notice very much difference.
We all get days when our timing is out. Those are the days when you clip the edge of the clays or the ducks are being winged. They are being caught on the edge of the pattern. Correcting your technique - getting your head down and pushing through works for me - and you connect in the middle and they are killed cleanly. But shooters are far to quick to blame the gun, the cartridge etc rather than accepting that its operator that’s the issue, relaxing, doing a reset and then shooting well. Certainly if my first couple of shots connect I get confidence and then shoot well for the rest of the day. If I am late for the shoot, irritated by traffic, poor directions etc etc and then miss a couple of sitters, it takes me a long time to get back into form. Very easy to then blame my gun, cartridges etc.
And rather than improving my game shooting, I do find clays - because the slow down - somewhat counter productive.
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PeterHenry
Active Member
My understanding is that it's down to the fact that the 'blue' shot deforms, so therefore imparts more energy on impact - but I'm in no way an expert.
interesting view on the situation, however modern cup wads protect the lead shot to help reduce the deformation when travelling down the barrel and at the moment of firing the set back forces.
Then the law of physics, steel shot being lighter and larger in diameter following the plus two sizes rule will slow down considerably quicker than lead shot will, we do not kill game at the muzzle. Throw a ping pong ball and a golf ball and see which travels furthest and with most terminal energy, or suggest to a top golf player they use a ping pong ball and they would laugh at you.
The ONLY reason steel shot is constantly pushed as the non toxic alternative to lead is cost.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
But a ping pong ball compared to a golf ball is really not a fair comparison. Drag is a function of surface area and the square of velocity.
Density of lead is about 11.3 grams per cm3, iron is just under 8 gr per cm3. Volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi x radius cubed, whereas surface area is 4 x pi x radius squared.
if you do the Maths you will see that you don’t need to go up in radius very much to get a steel pellet that is the same weight as a lead pellet. You need to increase the radius in the ratio of 1:1.11 from a lead pellet to get the same weight steel pellet. Volume goes up in the ratio of 1:1.4
Whereas the surface area only goes up in ratio of 1.23.
If you read this paper you will that the effect of switching to steel is pretty minimal in terms of penetration and killing power up to 50 yards.
Lead vs steel - a question of lethality
BASC’s Peter Marshall summarises the findings of a new piece of research by Cranfield University into the penetration of lead vs steel shot.
basc.org.uk
But a ping pong ball compared to a golf ball is really not a fair comparison. Drag is a function of surface area and the square of velocity.
Density of lead is about 11.3 grams per cm3, iron is just under 8 gr per cm3. Volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi x radius cubed, whereas surface area is 4 x pi x radius squared.
if you do the Maths you will see that you don’t need to go up in radius very much to get a steel pellet that is the same weight as a lead pellet. You need to increase the radius in the ratio of 1:1.11 from a lead pellet to get the same weight steel pellet. Volume goes up in the ratio of 1:1.4
Whereas the surface area only goes up in ratio of 1.23.
If you read this paper you will that the effect of switching to steel is pretty minimal in terms of penetration and killing power up to 50 yards.
Lead vs steel - a question of lethality
BASC’s Peter Marshall summarises the findings of a new piece of research by Cranfield University into the penetration of lead vs steel shot.
is standard steel shot under CIP a maximum of 3.25mm diameter? the link shows cartridges of shot size 3 which is 3.56mm diameter ???? yet the link states 3.3mm
Also out of interest what technology was used to measure the muzzle velocity? Not so easy for a shotgun ask any cartridge manufacture. And why when CIP is at 2.5mtrs.
Will stay with lead as long as legal to do so.
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There are multiple different shot size scales out there. And haven’t a clue what equipment they used to measure Velocity. But I think the Cranfield Institute has a pretty good handle on ballistics given their long involvement with military etc.
For lead shot yes, but for steel shot that was one of its advantages the size is universal, even if originating from china as most looks to do and held at very close tolerance due to how it is manufactured.
However still no news from the HSE on the future of lead, but WJ do not give up.
Press Release: Wild Justice lodges complaint about Waitrose and Marks & Spencer selling gamebirds contaminated with toxic lead shot - Wild Justice
Environmental campaign group Wild Justice has lodged a complaint to the Competition and Marketing Authority about false claims made by […]
wildjustice.org.uk
Waitrose still selling gamebirds contaminated with toxic lead shot, despite telling customers it only stocks lead-free gamebirds - Wild Justice
Lead is a poison and has been removed from many formerly common uses such as for water pipes and fishing […]
wildjustice.org.uk
Crowstalker
Well-Known Member
That says a lot about "reviews". Sorry I can't be of help to your question I have no first hand experience.
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