Advice on shooting elk

[Iain73]

@UpNorthMI and @devon deer stalker your posts are very informative and have made me post my experience.

I have just returned from Kazakhstan where I was hunting the Maral Elk. The rifle I was using was a 300 PRC necked down to 6.5mm firing the Berger 156gr EOL bullet at 3320fps.

Having watched many YouTube ‘experts’ I was confident that the bullet would do the job. In fact, one YouTuber said that if he could only ever use one cartridge and bullet for elk again it would be this bullet from the 6.5PRC.

My guide repeatedly said these animals are tough and many are lost every year after the shot by running into cover never to be seen again.

My guide and I tracked a Bull for four days morning and night. What I didn’t realise until I hunted there, was how big these animals are, and how they can cover huge distances very quickly. After several ‘half chances’ at a shot on the first 3 days, on the fourth morning he presented broadside at 270 yards. This is realistically just about the closest shot that mountain environment would allow.

The first shot placement was poor. It was a too far back, as he was quartering towards me but he reacted and turned to his right, and my second shot went clean into the lungs. That’s when he started running towards cover. My third shot was in the neck as he ran towards us, and fourth in the shoulder. Neither slowed him down one bit and he covered the 800 or so yards to the timber in seconds. About 30 yards or so before the trees I managed to put a second one in the lungs and he finally went down.

A huge sigh of relief from both the guide and I we started the process of getting him back to camp. Once skinned, it was possible to see the damage done by the bullets was ‘minimal’. Not one went all the way through the animal, and the neck shot only penetrated about 2.5” still in the muscle.

In summary, and to answer the OPs post, I will never shoot an elk with a 6.5mm again. I do not recommend it. Next time I elk hunt it will be with a 30 cal, magnum calibre, either 300 Weatherby or 300 Win Mag with a 180gr plus bonded bullet!

Good luck to the OP on your hunt!

 

[Eddie P]

@UpNorthMI and @devon deer stalker your posts are very informative and have made me post my experience.

I have just returned from Kazakhstan where I was hunting the Maral Elk. The rifle I was using was a 300 PRC necked down to 6.5mm firing the Berger 156gr EOL bullet at 3320fps.

Having watched many YouTube ‘experts’ I was confident that the bullet would do the job. In fact, one YouTuber said that if he could only ever use one cartridge and bullet for elk again it would be this bullet from the 6.5PRC.

My guide repeatedly said these animals are tough and many are lost every year after the shot by running into cover never to be seen again.

My guide and I tracked a Bull for four days morning and night. What I didn’t realise until I hunted there, was how big these animals are, and how they can cover huge distances very quickly. After several ‘half chances’ at a shot on the first 3 days, on the fourth morning he presented broadside at 270 yards. This is realistically just about the closest shot that mountain environment would allow.

The first shot placement was poor. It was a too far back, as he was quartering towards me but he reacted and turned to his right, and my second shot went clean into the lungs. That’s when he started running towards cover. My third shot was in the neck as he ran towards us, and fourth in the shoulder. Neither slowed him down one bit and he covered the 800 or so yards to the timber in seconds. About 30 yards or so before the trees I managed to put a second one in the lungs and he finally went down.

A huge sigh of relief from both the guide and I we started the process of getting him back to camp. Once skinned, it was possible to see the damage done by the bullets was ‘minimal’. Not one went all the way through the animal, and the neck shot only penetrated about 2.5” still in the muscle.

In summary, and to answer the OPs post, I will never shoot an elk with a 6.5mm again. I do not recommend it. Next time I elk hunt it will be with a 30 cal, magnum calibre, either 300 Weatherby or 300 Win Mag with a 180gr plus bonded bullet!

Good luck to the OP on your hunt!

The marketing for that bullet is interesting, it's more like the marketing for a target bullet, all about BC and tollerences etc, very little about the behaviour against flesh & bone.

 

[Iain73]

The marketing for that bullet is interesting, it's more like the marketing for a target bullet, all about BC and tollerences etc, very little about the behaviour against flesh & bone.

I shot a Siberian roe buck with it, and it was fantastic. Couldn’t have performed any better.

 

[Eddie P]

I shot a Siberian roe buck with it, and it was fantastic. Couldn’t have performed any better.

I'm not saying it's a bad bullet, just an observation about the marketing.

 

[jthyttin]

The first shot placement was poor. It was a too far back, as he was quartering towards me but he reacted and turned to his right, and my second shot went clean into the lungs. That’s when he started running towards cover. My third shot was in the neck as he ran towards us, and fourth in the shoulder. Neither slowed him down one bit and he covered the 800 or so yards to the timber in seconds. About 30 yards or so before the trees I managed to put a second one in the lungs and he finally went down.

Reminds me of quote from some PH in Africa to the effect (about buffalo): "If the first .375 doesn't do the job, 7 or 8 consecutive shots serve only as minor annoyance".

Couldn't find the quote in quick search, I'm sure some member remembers who was the PH and what was the exact wording.

While I appreciate your comment of never using 6.5mm again on elk, the case you described shows the failure of the bullet of choice, not the 300PRC case driving 6.5mm bullet. From what I've gathered, Berger is no hunting bullet manufacturer, they just got an idea to make and sell bullets that have some qualities of proper hunting bullet (and lacking some other).

I've tried few OTM bullets (actually in 6.5mm) including modifying them according to instructions from people some others regard highly. I found the terminal ballistics erratic, namely the "throat" i.e. part of wound channel before the bullet really starts expanding. And because my purpose was to find (make) varmint style bullet for smaller critters I abandoned the idea. Otherwise the concept would've been very nice, only two clicks up from the zero of similar unmodified bullet, and similar enough trajectory.

 

[njc110381]

I've never shot elk, but if I did I'd probably take my .300WSM. Failing that a 7mm Rem Mag. Try not to get too hung up on it. What matters is that you can shoot the rifle well and hit your mark, that'll be better than pulling a shot with a boomer then having to make up 400m before you can track the thing!

I find the 7mm magnums very pleasant to shoot. I had a 7STW a while ago, it was lovely but very hard to feed. 7RM isn't far behind it and common over there.

 

[browning525]

I live in Southern Alberta, Canada and over 50 years of hunting, have taken my share of elk, both cows and bulls. They are a tough animal and can take a bit of punishment. I have never taken elk with anything smaller than a 30-06. Not because I couldn't, but I prefer larger guns with heavy for caliber bullets.
For many years when I was a "one-gun" guy, my caliber of choice was the 338 win mag. I loaded it exclusively with 210 gr. Nosler partitions, and I honestly dont recall ever using two shots to down an elk, except once. The caveat here is shot placement and length of shot. I typically hunted them in the calling season and would get them in within a hundred yards. 400 yards is an awful long shot that most people hyped on adrenalin will never make.
One thing that I dont recall having been brought up in this thread is the location you plan on hunting. Where I hunted was mountain country, and we were plagued with grizzly bears. I would see them often, but honestly never fealt threatened, but I always packed a gun worthy of grizzly defence. Nothing will get your butt cheeks clenched quicker than having a grizzly bear come into a cow elk call! A good friend of mine had one charge in to the call so close that he fealt forced to shoot the bear. That is a visit with the Fish and Wildlife authorities you never want to have to make!
As I recall, I have taken elk with the following cartridges (again, all one shot kills) 30-06, 338 WM, 8mm mauser, 348 Win., 405 winchester, 375 H&H. Bullet weights ranged from 180 gr (30-06) to 300 gr.(405 winchester). Most were taken in the 100 yard range, but the one and only taken out to 400 ( and the only elk I required two shots) was a cow elk taken with the 30-06. That one animal taken at 400 travelled the farthest , and was the most difficult to recover as it made it across a frozen river and into a bad tangle of bush before dying.

 

[alberta boy]

I live in Southern Alberta, Canada and over 50 years of hunting, have taken my share of elk, both cows and bulls. They are a tough animal and can take a bit of punishment. I have never taken elk with anything smaller than a 30-06. Not because I couldn't, but I prefer larger guns with heavy for caliber bullets.
For many years when I was a "one-gun" guy, my caliber of choice was the 338 win mag. I loaded it exclusively with 210 gr. Nosler partitions, and I honestly dont recall ever using two shots to down an elk, except once. The caveat here is shot placement and length of shot. I typically hunted them in the calling season and would get them in within a hundred yards. 400 yards is an awful long shot that most people hyped on adrenalin will never make.
One thing that I dont recall having been brought up in this thread is the location you plan on hunting. Where I hunted was mountain country, and we were plagued with grizzly bears. I would see them often, but honestly never fealt threatened, but I always packed a gun worthy of grizzly defence. Nothing will get your butt cheeks clenched quicker than having a grizzly bear come into a cow elk call! A good friend of mine had one charge in to the call so close that he fealt forced to shoot the bear. That is a visit with the Fish and Wildlife authorities you never want to have to make!
As I recall, I have taken elk with the following cartridges (again, all one shot kills) 30-06, 338 WM, 8mm mauser, 348 Win., 405 winchester, 375 H&H. Bullet weights ranged from 180 gr (30-06) to 300 gr.(405 winchester). Most were taken in the 100 yard range, but the one and only taken out to 400 ( and the only elk I required two shots) was a cow elk taken with the 30-06. That one animal taken at 400 travelled the farthest , and was the most difficult to recover as it made it across a frozen river and into a bad tangle of bush before dying.

Yes , the large toothy thing factor is always something to keep in mind . I've had a few close encounters myself over the years . Only one was determined to have a go at me out of all the run ins I've had , but it did leave an impression . By the way , the 348 and 405 are great old cartridges , not many use them anymore , very cool .

AB

 

[A Guy Out West]

Use enough gun! Why settle for something that will squeak by? I know a guy who uses a .243 Win and bags an elk every year. He shoots at 100 yards or less and only shoots if he has the perfect shot. He also has the fortune of hunting on private land with no other hunters. At 200 yards and under, almost anything that goes bang will get the job done. 400 is a different story, if I was doing it, I would use nothing less than a 30/06 with a 180 gr. Controlled expansion bullet. Practice shooting at that range, get a reliable range finder, Only shoot if your certain you can make the shoot.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Shooting Elk at 400 plus is a different game totally, a 300 magnum is required

That is definitely not true, while there is nothing wrong with a 300 or any other magnum, elk are handily dropped with significantly less. I think we dropped five in a row shooting 6.5 and 25 Creedmoor with 140 and 131 grain bullets at ranges from 300 to almost 600 yds. Zero issues when shot properly.

Best advice is from North American hunters - Randy Newberg, Ron Spomer, Craig Boddington etc.

Much of what those guys say is Fudd lore, especially if its about using a super magnum for elk...

My good friend used my 308 to take this bull down last week at 460 yards.

 

[UpNorthMI]

That is definitely not true, while there is nothing wrong with a 300 or any other magnum, elk are handily dropped with significantly less. I think we dropped five in a row shooting 6.5 and 25 Creedmoor with 140 and 131 grain bullets at ranges from 300 to almost 600 yds. Zero issues when shot properly.

Much of what those guys say is Fudd lore, especially if its about using a super magnum for elk...

My good friend used my 308 to take this bull down last week at 460 yards.

That's a real nice animal, hopefully your good friend was really happy to bag this elk. .308 shoots far and with the right bullet is a good selection, personally I'd like something a little more for 460 yards elk shooting.

 

[UpNorthMI]

@UpNorthMI and @devon deer stalker your posts are very informative and have made me post my experience.

I have just returned from Kazakhstan where I was hunting the Maral Elk. The rifle I was using was a 300 PRC necked down to 6.5mm firing the Berger 156gr EOL bullet at 3320fps.

Having watched many YouTube ‘experts’ I was confident that the bullet would do the job. In fact, one YouTuber said that if he could only ever use one cartridge and bullet for elk again it would be this bullet from the 6.5PRC.

My guide repeatedly said these animals are tough and many are lost every year after the shot by running into cover never to be seen again.

My guide and I tracked a Bull for four days morning and night. What I didn’t realise until I hunted there, was how big these animals are, and how they can cover huge distances very quickly. After several ‘half chances’ at a shot on the first 3 days, on the fourth morning he presented broadside at 270 yards. This is realistically just about the closest shot that mountain environment would allow.

The first shot placement was poor. It was a too far back, as he was quartering towards me but he reacted and turned to his right, and my second shot went clean into the lungs. That’s when he started running towards cover. My third shot was in the neck as he ran towards us, and fourth in the shoulder. Neither slowed him down one bit and he covered the 800 or so yards to the timber in seconds. About 30 yards or so before the trees I managed to put a second one in the lungs and he finally went down.

A huge sigh of relief from both the guide and I we started the process of getting him back to camp. Once skinned, it was possible to see the damage done by the bullets was ‘minimal’. Not one went all the way through the animal, and the neck shot only penetrated about 2.5” still in the muscle.

In summary, and to answer the OPs post, I will never shoot an elk with a 6.5mm again. I do not recommend it. Next time I elk hunt it will be with a 30 cal, magnum calibre, either 300 Weatherby or 300 Win Mag with a 180gr plus bonded bullet!

Good luck to the OP on your hunt!

Iain73,

Thank you for posting your honest & real account, it sounds like you did really well to get your multiple rounds into the animal and to recover your Maral Elk, I'm sure it was a great hunt in amazing territory.

I think most UK deer hunters on this forum have only seen wilderness in the form of a Scottish mountain hill side, English woodland or maybe moor land. Hunting elk overseas and in true wilderness territory is humbling and overwhelming. You have to see it to believe it, it sounded like you covered great distances every day. Yes there are many stories of short range shots with medium caliber rifles on elk but if you hunt wilderness or big country territory you are in a different world and facing the possibility that a shot could be in the 400+ yard range on a very large animal.

To follow an animal for days and to only get a single opportunity is not uncommon and is very challenging. It sounds as if you were lucky and skilled to hit your elk with a number of shots. They really are big animals and in my personal opinion deserve the respect of a reasonable caliber being shot by a hunter who has taken the care to know his rifle well and who has practiced out to very long ranges.

I totally agree with your comment "Next time I elk hunt it will be with a 30 cal, magnum caliber, either 300 Weatherby or 300 Win Mag with a 180gr plus bonded bullet!". A reasonable sized Elk is probably at least 3 times the weight of a large red stag and as you say you only appreciate the true size when you have a dead one at your feet and you are wondering how the hell are we going to get any of this animal back to camp!

Thanks again for an honest real world account, hopefully the OP and others will appreciate the step up that wilderness elk are above anything in the UK.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Much of what those guys say is Fudd lore, especially if its about using a super magnum for elk...

Fudd lore? Thats a new one on me, what does it mean?

Not sure of the others in the quote, but pretty sure Randy usually shoots a .308 for Elk.
I have a lot of respect for Randy, and I do know him personally, same guy off screen as on.

 

[ValleyPursuits]

People swear by Bergers on game - until they don’t! Frangible bullets can work very well at longer distances - but the calibre and bullet weight should be matched to the quarry size. For me an elk at 400+ requires more than a 6.5 caliber hole initiated by a frangible bullet.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Fudd lore? Thats a new one on me, what does it mean?

Not sure of the others in the quote, but pretty sure Randy usually shoots a .308 for Elk.
I have a lot of respect for Randy, and I do know him personally, same guy off screen as on.

Sorry, Fudd lore as in antiquated themes like you need a 300WM to shoot deer, shooting animals past 300yards is unethical, you have to use "hunting bullets" to ethically hunt. It was more of a poke, I'm sure those guys are nice guys and we'd probably all get along.

 

[A Guy Out West]

Hehehaha. Cold Bore, with the exception of your first point, you described about 90% of this sites members.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Sorry, Fudd lore as in antiquated themes like you need a 300WM to shoot deer, shooting animals past 300yards is unethical, you have to use "hunting bullets" to ethically hunt. It was more of a poke, I'm sure those guys are nice guys and we'd probably all get along.

Possibly the origin….

Elmer Fudd - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[coldboremiracle]

Possibly the origin….

Elmer Fudd - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Absolutely the origin

 

[coldboremiracle]

you described about 90% of this sites members.

Are you saying I joined a Fudd Forum?

 

[A Guy Out West]

Are you saying I joined a Fudd Forum?

I think so, and don’t ever call a bullet a head.