Annealing

Yep, most of them look spot on! As I said, it’s certainly possible and most of those cases are looking pretty good 👌🏼

Where machinery comes into it’s own is the (pretty much) guaranteed consistency is all. I hope you won’t mind me saying that one or two of the cases don’t look quite as cooked as the others (they might be, so I’m not judging!) but the machines just make it one step easier, but that comes at a financial cost. And we’re back to that balancing act 😊

One thing I really should have added to my (far too lengthy) post above is that annealing isn’t even necessarily necessary! I know I shouldn’t say that, as it’s only harmful to business, but it isn’t 🤷🏼‍♂️

You could shoot your cases until the necks split etc, but what you do get from annealing is more consistent neck tension, and longer case life. If neither of those are particularly important, why bother.

That said, I can’t imagine many reloaders not being bothered by those factors, hence….we anneal 😎

Thanks for the compliment and the advice. I think annealing is sensible, due to the fact that someone I know who anneals his 300 WM cases is getting many more reloads from them than you’d think. Good quality brass being looked after will last. And who wants a split case ? Too many ‘what if’s’ start to creep in then.
 
A lot of what’s already been said already is good avdvice. Some I don’t agree with, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s “bad” advice.

The AMP is an amazing machine. Both simple and highly complex at the same time. That said, it’s north of £1500 and for that price you could almost just buy new brass, sell it once fired, and buy more. It would take a LONG time before your losses got to £1500, but that doesn’t make it a fabulous bit of kit.

The video mentioned about the timing “window” when annealing is, I’m guessing, that from Eric Cortina. He does a few, but I think it’s this one:
It’s a very good video, as are many of his others, and highlights the need to not panic about getting your times “spot on”. I aim for the case to glow orange at the neck for just a second, then drop out of the heat. But that’s just me 🤷🏼‍♂️

There is no need to quench. It won’t change the metallurgy in anyway, but it will mean you can handle your brass sooner than letting it air cool. But then again, you also need to dry it all over again now, so for me personally, I just let it air cool as I find it’s less faff.

Here is a great video about what’s happening during annealing -

It shows how you need to get the metal hit enough to “reset” the molecules, but that’s all. If you don’t get it hot enough, it’s ineffective. But equally, annealing a case twice makes literally no difference. The only thing you can do “wrong” is leave the case is the heat for FAR too long. Then you’ll be melting it, but it’ll take longer than you might imagine to get there.

As far as flame annealing goes there is absolutely nothing wrong with spinning the case over a hot flame. Essentially that’s all gas annealing machines do anyway. But what we are aiming for as reloaders, as was already said, is consistency. And doing it with a drill and a hand held blow torch is neither efficient or consistent, but it’s still possible, and I would suggest probably the cheapest method!

Equally you can build these machines with enough DIY skill and some components. It will cost you, but probably not a great deal. More so in time than finances.

What I WOULDN'T suggest, is holding the case with your fingers. I doubt your skin will thank you for it. The case needs to be getting to about 600-750 degrees, and since it’s about a 2.5” long piece of conducting metal, you’ll know about it! Judging how well annealed your cases are, based on the degree of melted skin, is probably not the best idea. But again - that’s just me! 😂

For all of the above reasons, I sell the Ugly Annealer.

For £200 it’s great bang-for-buck and I suggest is a good balance between cost and consistency. Will you get better results with an AMP? Possibly, but not proveably. Is it cheaper with a drill and a blow torch? Absolutely, but probably not consistent and very much more time consuming.

Everything in reloading is a balance, and for me, the Ugly Annealer strikes a good balance all round. But that’s just me 😎

Hi - thanks for the very thorough response to this - you’re spot on it was Eric cortina’s video I referenced. I’ll also check out the ugly annealer - for £200 it’s way more sensible than the AMP. I like the idea of the blowtorch method but with an element of consistency -

I was glad to read the brass doesn’t need to be quenched - that’s the faff of drying sorted

I’ll give the blow torch method a whirl
I’ll make some attempts on cheaper trash Brass I’ve collected before I go near my new Lapua stuff

Thanks again for all the help here
 
The Ugly Annealer works very nicely :)
Got mine Tuesday, had a play with it Tuesday night then ran 100 S&B and 200 Sako 6.5 Creedmoor cases through it tonight, took about 35mins all together.

I'll full length size them tomorrow then SS pin wet tumble them and bag them up for later.
Unfortunately until the MoD sort things out I have nowhere to shoot them :(
 
Hi - thanks for the very thorough response to this - you’re spot on it was Eric cortina’s video I referenced. I’ll also check out the ugly annealer - for £200 it’s way more sensible than the AMP. I like the idea of the blowtorch method but with an element of consistency -

I was glad to read the brass doesn’t need to be quenched - that’s the faff of drying sorted

I’ll give the blow torch method a whirl
I’ll make some attempts on cheaper trash Brass I’ve collected before I go near my new Lapua stuff

Thanks again for all the help here
Sounds like a good plan 🙂 If you would like any help at all, don’t hesitate to drop me a line 👌🏼
 
You don't, it's suck it and see
IMHO, induction annealers are more likely to produce consistent results than gas burner annealers because the number of variables which can affect the final result are much reduced

Cheers

Bruce
I have watched your demonstration interview a number of times. As an engineer I absolutely love your process taking nothing as a given but always exploring what’s been done before.

I don’t have your knowledge of electronics, though I am good with wiring. I am good at designing and making mechanical things and have a pretty well stocked workshop.

I want an induction annealer and the cheapest viable machine is £1200 which I haven’t got. I would really enjoy the challenge of building an annealer, but haven’t a clue where to start on the electronics side. Would you be willing to share some secrets Bruce?

Ralph
 
I don't have a comprehensive parts list and I'm not going to build any more of these, but the principal electrical/electronic components are:
a. 2000 watt ZVS induction heating power module https://www.amazon.co.uk/Josenidny-Voltage-Induction-Heating-Flyback/dp/B0CJC8GDTR/ref=sr_1_20?crid=HL7BYK779CZU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.O5k643Xg5vj_E6lVqqU-xuN4q9GCM69nrEk0oSRsFCOeE51stGu7Qdb2U7iZq_JFMfjyacRVMUKOfB0LGhm2I1snsA8QgdB_1FNzCe9BCBWr8aQ37nNFv2qcrm4dyVzKG-K1JuC46C74vhC0L6Rmu5d8pnzRcFqJwbkBejgyCkNpF-c6bMjDEBd6Qe3nUws1gPu0X7F3Ei8Nou-OdVZN5yRvGb0MqGp-69EHU3qlX524ZOKD0bx_fpnnMBRx2r62wIt7JxK7WeMDWJbtFggy87ICZ8J5oTb-3VutjavKNkc.YExFcNfCXl_uqgRyEtc4T2ulb5ExOk72dFZ3Tu3S3Ew&dib_tag=se&keywords=zvs+2000w+power+supply&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1730542405&sprefix=zvs+2000w+power+supply,aps,95&sr=8-20
This converts incoming 36 volts DC into the high frequency AC needed to power the induction coil
b. 36 volt 1000watt DC power supply https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEISHILE-230VAC-DC36V-Transformer-Monitoring-Industrial/dp/B07FRTG295/ref=sr_1_6?crid=22164DBSJ1Q50&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FDfyw8UlIvmsRFZeU_sY2Y9CPkdXa-uiSj30KDnue0FoVWZwfCmzDOpJIKADDimbwE-wVkyELmdavlx5DFg-kVS6BBTUoIo_aHCZL8GlbHcJEAGyOPAezDnBRV5cR4sseT7lRj34AuBCrhZ75gEVL0JNck8DX-Henkm0FjnBh-0949xBgRb5H7AxeIPz8JOL1nmtDCNh2ZtlIzlFdaIub_DKcW8IBjSotNci8QjVWwDiCsSusXTM5FSs-aAi_Kpiq8wI7WBbemEFXFDT8BS9cfOEBXms0Gx6Ofeh6ZlLHdU.nkg2ts7seNcueXkiYtSRUfU15xy0IqKkQxMtqkdL9jI&dib_tag=se&keywords=1000watt+36+volt+power+supply&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1730542685&sprefix=1000watt+36+volt+power+supply+,aps,74&sr=8-6
This converts 240v ac power into the 36 volt DC power used by the ZVS module
c. There has to be a switch between the output of the 36 volt power supply and the input of the ZVS module to stop and start the annealing process. This switch has to handle a lot of current and be controlled by the timer which sets the annealing time. There are two ways to do it:
1. Use a solid state relay. This is the best way, but all the DC to DC solid state relays on Amazon are really poor quality and I had 3 fail in short order before I found a used genuine solid state relay (Sensata/Crydom D1D-100) that does the job. Even second hand, the relay cost over £100
2. The other way is to use a miniature DC contactor like this https://www.nationwide-trailer-parts.co.uk/products/24v-hd-iskra-starter-del-tail-lift?currency=GBP&variant=1201879045&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=3093597afcc6&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm5e5BhCWARIsANwm06j0avXmG-4N1jpCIqR7ch3v_g5CELa9apH-55Gecjo6o8czshLwTkwaAsCMEALw_wcB
It's a bit clunky, but it will work
d. I made the induction coil from a length of 5mm OD copper tube. I insulated the central section of it using fibreglass high temperature insulating sleeving and then formed the coil by wrapping it around a wooden dowel. There are 6 turns on the coil and the inner diameter of the coil is about 25-30mm.
Trying to make it tighter than this runs the risk of flattening the copper tube.
There is a break in the insulation where the tube is electrically connected to the ZVS module but straight sections of insulated tube extend along the length of the module and exit at the rear of the module where they are connected to plastic pipes from the cooling pump
Running coolant (water and antifreeze) through the coil dramatically reduces it temperature and increases it's life span. In fact I'm still using my original coil
e. Timer module. This is used to set the annealing time. Pressing the start button pulls in the relay allowing DC power to reach the ZVS module and start the annealing process. At the end of the timed period, the relay opens, cutting off power to the module and ending the annealing process. On my set up, the end of the timed period triggers the solenoid that allows the case to drop out of the coil
This is the timer I'm using https://www.fruugo.co.uk/for-inkbir...UL_umfe5yEFVfVNTVO9yC_dyPwydeYdcaAlZ8EALw_wcB
f. 12 volt 20 amp DC power supply - something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-Regulated-Switching-Transformer-LED/dp/B07CRNNQ2P/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=3IDTA9Q1P9182&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sbQR3j_-UqEP7metB6ID3tw769THFvQ8oxKfi_eAvBjNltGBpHLlP7SAWtmcBeks7X6aC2wjBdiOw9fXjyaNzFl2p7w5BT6JBTUg7q31fs-aeWMU8Y-XD2z_Sa0f7tuF58PTQkfZJ0H6RnnRS9J0vzyVZtdU6kXdaz1g0L9oxjYYPSqLTqy4X_tpJFIhxeXHuRBxTkvBHtOi7a1fyJdiNq95H3wQf2pWjEiiCifCQ0ui9IhqsdALBgQc9Y776IwldCfEzDAUveM5MOTxs6sr-w6Dj5hU-cLsX9jJ3vM3m64.TwxlYAfOzfKa0eMin-WvUNsEiwa7AEZl_Rp4eO5e0k0&dib_tag=se&keywords=12+volt+20+amp+Dc+power+supply&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1730546009&sprefix=12+volt+20+amp+dc+power+supply,aps,132&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1
This provides power for the timer, the relay/contactor, coolant pump and solenoid that allows the cartridge to fall at the end of the annealing cycle
g. Other bits: that will be needed
On/off power switch
Start switch (push button)
Coolant pump (12 volt) plus hoses and tank
Solenoid to open and close the cover that allows the case to fall at the end of the annealing cycle
Case to build the whole thing into - I got a used computer case for the cost of 2 pints of beer from a local computer shop
h. Other optional bits:
A shunt connected between the 36 volt supply and the ZVS to measure the current being drawn by the ZVS module when powers up. This along with the voltage from the 36 volt power supply are fed into an energy measurement module that displays the voltage, current, power and energy consumed
Coolant digital thermometer - the probe lies in the coolant tank and the temperature is displayed on the front panel. The coolant can get up to over 70 degrees centigrade when annealing a lot of brass!

Cheers

Bruce
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to share this with me. It is very much appreciated.

I think I have a dead computer that could have its tower case harvested for the project, or I may fabricate something for it. I guess the first stage is to get the components.

I have become a new convert to the joys of 3D printing so I can probably design and make non-hot bits with that.

Thanks again Bruce; you are a real gent!
 
You have defo inspired me Bruce. I'm going for it!

I bought some power supplies from AliExpress previously for a machine I made to spool wire - in my 'day job' I sell motorcycle tools and wiring consumable on the 'net, so I'll get PSUs from them.

What sort of flowrate cooling pump should I be looking for and what sort of tank capacity. I'll probably design the tank to fit the available space and 3D print it. Would the coolant pump be the sort used for cooling chips on computers?

I went for the solid state relay on your advice - the most expensive part of the entire project I think ;) I'll get the VAT back in it :)
 
The Ugly Annealer works very nicely :)
Got mine Tuesday, had a play with it Tuesday night then ran 100 S&B and 200 Sako 6.5 Creedmoor cases through it tonight, took about 35mins all together.

I'll full length size them tomorrow then SS pin wet tumble them and bag them up for later.
Unfortunately until the MoD sort things out I have nowhere to shoot them :(
Hi, I was at Warminster today, a contact of mine says “the 6.5 CM issue is now fully with the MOD to resolve. He wouldn’t divulge is sauce.
 
Hello , does anyone on here anneal their brass if so which annealer do you recommend please, are the propane ones ok ? Does anyone sell a reasonably priced induction type? The AMP ones look nice but hell they’re expensive, thanks .
I had a home made one consisting of a piece of tube on a stand and a propane torch have a look on the internet dead simple and no problem with temp
 
Hi, I was at Warminster today, a contact of mine says “the 6.5 CM issue is now fully with the MOD to resolve. He wouldn’t divulge is sauce.
What is sauce for the Creedmoor (Goose) is sauce for the (Gander) MoD. 👍😘
Kb.
 
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