Zeroing at 1” high question

[billy_boyle_2010]

Yes, I was disagreeing with your use of the word "accurate".

What I think you're really trying to say is that a 1" high zero at 100 may not be so practical for taking head shots at the sort of distances that most people might be tempted to try it.

Someone's ability to shoot accurately isn't a factor of where they've zeroed. You could zero 6" left at 115 yards and still be incredibly accurate, or you could zero bang on at 100 and be a very inaccurate shooter.

Personally, I think that using the MPBR concept is very sensible.

Agree totally on the first part of your post. "Accurate" was def the wrong word

As to MPBR- it looks v good on paper. Please correct me if I'm wrong- but from what I have read- many deer calibres have MPBR of nearly 300 yards for the larger deer species (with an 8" kill zone) is normal. They rely on a zero around 200-240 yards- with bullets hitting 3-4" high at points before this- spot on at 220ish- and dropping 3-4" by 280-300 yards.

The issue I have with them- is they are based on the theoretical placement of the bullet trajectory. And don't factor in human error.

A gun may be 1 MOA on paper at 100. Not many manage that in the field. With 2-3MOA being more reasonable in the real world- at the upper limits and lower elevations of trajectory- some of these shots are outside of the kill zone.

Essentially- the MPBR takes away some of your margin for error.

 

[BenBhoy]

Agree totally on the first part of your post. "Accurate" was def the wrong word

As to MPBR- it looks v good on paper. Please correct me if I'm wrong- but from what I have read- many deer calibres have MPBR of nearly 300 yards for the larger deer species (with an 8" kill zone) is normal. They rely on a zero around 200-240 yards- with bullets hitting 3-4" high at points before this- spot on at 220ish- and dropping 3-4" by 280-300 yards.

The issue I have with them- is they are based on the theoretical placement of the bullet trajectory. And don't factor in human error.

A gun may be 1 MOA on paper at 100. Not many manage that in the field. With 2-3MOA being more reasonable in the real world- at the upper limits and lower elevations of trajectory- some of these shots are outside of the kill zone.

Essentially- the MPBR takes away some of your margin for error.

I'd say that regardless of how you zero,you only take a shot your confident with. That's not only a uniquely personal thing, but it can also change depending on external factors (your adrenaline levels, tiredness, how you've just been stalking, company your with etc.) Only you can satisfy your own pre shot requirements. There's never any guarantee, but you have to be honest with yourself before you squeeze trigger.

 

[mike243]

How high is your scope above the bore?

2"

 

[CBH Australia]

yep that’s all I wanted to check! Just to make sure I could give it a couple of clicks up for 1” high without needing to check zero again, as I don’t have regular access to a range

In theory yes. It pays to verify the point of impact on target.

With a good scope and good tracking the poi should be very close to what the adjustment increment is.

And for hunting purposes 30mm high at 100 is probably about right for the situation you described.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I'd say that regardless of how you zero,you only take a shot your confident with. That's not only a uniquely personal thing, but it can also change depending on external factors (your adrenaline levels, tiredness, how you've just been stalking, company your with etc.) Only you can satisfy your own pre shot requirements. There's never any guarantee, but you have to be honest with yourself before you squeeze trigger.

Yup for sure. But the MPBR gives you a false sense of security. The idea or MPBR is you don't have to think or worry about bullet drop. Just aim at the normal kill zone and you're fine- worry about the other factors you mention above.

The problem with the typical rifles MPBR is there are distances where the bullet is flying 3-4" high and other points where its 3-4" low.

At these distances (the 3-4" high point is around 150ish yards)- the MPBR works against you- not for you.

You could know on a normal day 150 yards is a reasonable shot for you. You may be a little tired, adrenaline etc as you say- but a 4" group off sticks at 150 yards is manageable. There's a 50% chance your bullet will strike high- up to 2" high- of your POA. With the MPBR putting it 4" high anyway- that shot has a chance of going 6" high.

Without MPBR- it just goes 2" high.

 

[Heym SR20]

Yup for sure. But the MPBR gives you a false sense of security. The idea or MPBR is you don't have to think or worry about bullet drop. Just aim at the normal kill zone and you're fine- worry about the other factors you mention above.

The problem with the typical rifles MPBR is there are distances where the bullet is flying 3-4" high and other points where its 3-4" low.

At these distances (the 3-4" high point is around 150ish yards)- the MPBR works against you- not for you.

You could know on a normal day 150 yards is a reasonable shot for you. You may be a little tired, adrenaline etc as you say- but a 4" group off sticks at 150 yards is manageable. There's a 50% chance your bullet will strike high- up to 2" high- of your POA. With the MPBR putting it 4" high anyway- that shot has a chance of going 6" high.

Without MPBR- it just goes 2" high.

With most deer stalking rifles and cartridges in everyday use your bullet should not be 3 or 4” high. It does rather depend on how far you want MPBR and yes some will opine that 3” high at 100 will give a much longer MPBR for large animals such as Elk.

However if you keep your shooting to sensible ranges the traditional 1” at 100 yards or 4cm at 100m will keep the centre of the group within 4cm of point of aim out to a bit over 200m.

As for the bullet and shooters natural error - ie most truth be told probably shoot a 3” group at 200 is absolutely something we need to be aware of. Its one of the reasons traditional shot placement typically 1/3 of the way up the body.

 

[bowji john]

Sit in high seat and range different points like trees and hedge edges.
When a deer comes out it’s way to reference.
Saves time

Sniper course 101

 

[Heym SR20]

Sniper course 101

Sit in high seat and range different points like trees and hedge edges.
When a deer comes out it’s way to reference.
Saves time

Should never do this - what you should do is wait until a buck of a lifetime appears. Then get out your rangefinding binoculars, read off the range, find your ballistic app, find your glasses, plug in the data, adjust the turrets, recheck the range only to find that the buck has disappeared.

Forget to put everything back to zero stop. Next buck appears. Repeat process as above, adding more clicks to the turret.

Take aim, squeeze trigger and bullet goes high.

You will then go into the endless doom loop of saying my rifle looses zero, and you have to dismantle everything and get the gunsmith to rebarrel it all.

But of course the real problem is £2000 plus S&B PM2 sniper scope, so you need to spend £4000 of the latest digital scope with inbuilt range finding. Etc

Now that the guntrade has removed several thousand pounds you set off in the Ford Raptor with your new shiny kit.

You spend all the time looking through the little tiny screen on the digital scope. ANd then the buck appears. The battery icon is blinking and it all goes blank……

Meanwhile the old farts who were born during the time when men landed on the moon, take their space age technology and continue to take deer by knowing and understanding the basics.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

With most deer stalking rifles and cartridges in everyday use your bullet should not be 3 or 4” high. It does rather depend on how far you want MPBR and yes some will opine that 3” high at 100 will give a much longer MPBR for large animals such as Elk.

However if you keep your shooting to sensible ranges the traditional 1” at 100 yards or 4cm at 100m will keep the centre of the group within 4cm of point of aim out to a bit over 200m.

As for the bullet and shooters natural error - ie most truth be told probably shoot a 3” group at 200 is absolutely something we need to be aware of. Its one of the reasons traditional shot placement typically 1/3 of the way up the body.

Totally agree re 1" high at 100 yards gives excellent useable range. I used it myself for a while.

But 1" high at 100 is not an example of MPBR because it does not utilise the maximum

It is a very good example of broadening ones "aim dead on" range without very little compromise, however.

 

[kenbro]

Yes, I was disagreeing with your use of the word "accurate".

What I think you're really trying to say is that a 1" high zero at 100 may not be so practical for taking head shots at the sort of distances that most people might be tempted to try it.

Someone's ability to shoot accurately isn't a factor of where they've zeroed. You could zero 6" left at 115 yards and still be incredibly accurate, or you could zero bang on at 100 and be a very inaccurate shooter.

Personally, I think that using the MPBR concept is very sensible.

Reminds me of a thread you started in mid 2022, VSS?
Ken.
Ps. I zero all my low powered small cal. (22) centre fire guns at a physical 165 yards because it suits my shooting.

 

[Edd101]

Just reading this thread while searching on the forum. Can someone clarify what is probably a stupid question!

You're zeroed 1inch high at 100yards. With your chosen bullet (EG: 243 100gr sako gamehead) you're flat out to 150yards. The drop at 200yards is 2.75 inches. Assuming 1/4 moa per click you add 4 clicks (6 clicks - 2 clicks for the 1inch high zero). I think I understand that if you were dead on at 100yards it would be 6 clicks but I'm struggling to be sure of how I account for that initial inch high at 100 in terms of MOA clicks. I'm thinking 2 clicks of 1/4 at 200yards being 1 inch?

 

[VSS]

Just reading this thread while searching on the forum. Can someone clarify what is probably a stupid question!

You're zeroed 1inch high at 100yards. With your chosen bullet (EG: 243 100gr sako gamehead) you're flat out to 150yards. The drop at 200yards is 2.75 inches. Assuming 1/4 moa per click you add 4 clicks (6 clicks - 2 clicks for the 1inch high zero). I think I understand that if you were dead on at 100yards it would be 6 clicks but I'm struggling to be sure of how I account for that initial inch high at 100 in terms of MOA clicks. I'm thinking 2 clicks of 1/4 at 200yards being 1 inch?

Just point and press, and stop overthinking it.
At normal stalking ranges you're good to go without worrying about clicks and moa and stuff like that.

 

[viking90]

Just reading this thread while searching on the forum. Can someone clarify what is probably a stupid question!

You're zeroed 1inch high at 100yards. With your chosen bullet (EG: 243 100gr sako gamehead) you're flat out to 150yards. The drop at 200yards is 2.75 inches. Assuming 1/4 moa per click you add 4 clicks (6 clicks - 2 clicks for the 1inch high zero). I think I understand that if you were dead on at 100yards it would be 6 clicks but I'm struggling to be sure of how I account for that initial inch high at 100 in terms of MOA clicks. I'm thinking 2 clicks of 1/4 at 200yards being 1 inch?

If you have a scope you can dial which I'm assuming you do then I wouldn't waste my time with the 1" high zero thing

 

[GBR66]

Zero at 200m. Work on the basis that if you have all the time in the world you might aim a snadge lower at 100 or a snadge higher on a runner at 300...but it probably won't matter - your ability under pressure will be far more important in placing it right, so burn some money on practice to build confidence. I reckon my happy max is just over 200m (longest one shot kill 340m after a long day on the hill with no shot, "aim just above the top of his spine soor" but I wouldn't recommend it) but 200m zero gives me a good clean up shot with heart pumping at 300 without too much thought.

 

[GBR66]

Just point and press, and stop overthinking it.
At normal stalking ranges you're good to go without worrying about clicks and moa and stuff like that.

Quite right - watch your deer and holdover or whatever they call it....don't feck around with scope at normal UK ranges - practice or read your ammo box for aim-off

 

[weblyish]

Quite right - watch your deer and holdover or whatever they call it....don't feck around with scope at normal UK ranges - practice or read your ammo box for aim-off

Just reading this thread while searching on the forum. Can someone clarify what is probably a stupid question!

You're zeroed 1inch high at 100yards. With your chosen bullet (EG: 243 100gr sako gamehead) you're flat out to 150yards. The drop at 200yards is 2.75 inches. Assuming 1/4 moa per click you add 4 clicks (6 clicks - 2 clicks for the 1inch high zero). I think I understand that if you were dead on at 100yards it would be 6 clicks but I'm struggling to be sure of how I account for that initial inch high at 100 in terms of MOA clicks. I'm thinking 2 clicks of 1/4 at 200yards being 1 inch?

You are not zeroed 1"high at 100yds
You are zeroed at 150yds as you say later on
Anything else is nonsense

 

[Utectok]

If your dialing turrets then zero bang on at 100m that’s the only way it works really.
I do I know the old inch high and holdover stuff works but being precise suits me and is better for headshots which on occasion are the only option

 

[User00056]

You are not zeroed 1"high at 100yds
You are zeroed at 150yds as you say later on
Anything else is nonsense

Absolutely. And I would add that if you're shooting at longer ranges be sure to pull the trigger harder to compensate

 

[maximus otter]

...read your ammo box for aim-off

Not a good idea. Manufacturers’ numbers are almost invariably optimistic re muzzle velocity, and therefore the bullet drop data is contaminated.

Zero at:

a) 200 yards, or;

b) 1” to 1.5” high at 100 yards (depending on the MV of your chosen stalking round.)

I zero my 6.5 x 55 1.5” high, my .223 1.25” high at 100 yards.

“Point ‘n click” out to my self-imposed 200-yard maximum range.

maximus otter

 

[VSS]

Not a good idea. Manufacturers’ numbers are almost invariably optimistic re muzzle velocity, and therefore the bullet drop data is contaminated.

Zero at:

a) 200 yards, or;

b) 1” to 1.5” high at 100 yards (depending on the MV of your chosen stalking round.)

I zero my 6.5 x 55 1.5” high, my .223 1.25” high at 100 yards.

“Point ‘n click” out to my self-imposed 200-yard maximum range.

maximus otter

That's interesting, as I've found the manufacturers data on the boxes (or online) for the three types of ammo I use to be pretty accurate with regards to bullet drops.