Importing a rifle from the EU - Dealer to Dealer?

[Mr. Gain]

Apologies in advance if this question has already been asked and answered elsewhere on here, but as a search didn't turn anything up, here goes...

A friend of mine (no, really!) has committed himself to buy a rifle from a dealer in Germany and is planning to have it sent to the RFD he uses in the UK. As it happens, the same UK RFD will also be visiting the German RFD's premises in a few weeks' time and so could collect the rifle in person.

My friend's question is: which method of getting the rifle to the UK would be easier, and what paperwork would be required in each case?

I had supposed that all the UK RFD would need to do would be to send the German RFD a copy of his details, after which the German RFD would post the rifle to him, but maybe it's more complicated than that.

If anyone has experience of this kind of sale/transfer, it would be great to know how you did it.

TIA

 

[Scott Country]

Hello,

I have only ever done this the other way round i.e sending outside the country.

For us to supply a customer in Europe we need firstly a copy of the RFD cert of the dealer it is being sent to, a prior import consent from the recipient country police to allow the end user permission to import, and other forms such as End User Declarations etcand only then we can apply for an Export Licence.

It is so much trouble and hassle to send an air rifle, let alone a firearm outside the UK, we wont do it at all now.

When/If this Export licence is approved then the rifle can be exported into the destination country (UK), and sent via a registered courier who are allowed to transfer firearms.

I presume as Germany is also in the EU the reverse will apply.....

The German Dealer will need probably an Export Licence to allow the rifle to be removed from the residing country permanently and you may also need a Prior Import Consent from UK Customs to allow the import, not to mention prior authority to purchase possess on a Section 1 FAC.

Speak to the dealer in Germany, he should be able to supply any forms you need to complete.

The people who deal with Exporting Firearms and other Dual Use goods controlled for export in the UK, are http://www.bis.gov.uk/ but they wont deal with the import from Germany, but can advise you who to speak with, but I assume the German dealer will have a similar government agency to take advise from.

Another thing worth watching out for.

IF the rifle does not bear UK Proof marks (or at least EU Proof marks that the UK proof house accepts as UK approved for use in the UK) you MAY need to have the rifle reproofed before the dealer can transfer it to you.

Again speak to the Proof House, tell them where the rifle was made(country of origin), and what proof marks it bears, and they will be able to best advise you if it will need reproofing for legal use/re-sale in the UK.

http://www.gunproof.com/

One thing for sure is you simply wont be able to just bring it back into the country, even as a firearms dealer, and the sending country needing an export licence will no doubt be a must!

People can bring rifles to and from EU countries with an EC Firearms Pass, but this is your own rifle for use in the country i.e hunting trips etc, it does not cover a permanent export.

At a very minimum just make sure the export is registered with UK customs BEFORE you commit to accepting the purchase.

Hope this helps

SC

 

[Orion]

You're saying that between his RFD and the German firearms dealer they don't have an idea of what to do?

No idea if the German dealer has any authorisations to obtain but............

You didn't mention if the party concerned is travelling by air, in which case it could open a logistical can of worms, but assuming he is travelling by vehicle. Then if his RFD is at the German's premises wouldn't it be a more convenient all round for him to personally collect the rifle, bring it into the UK, declare it at customs with the supporting evidence of his RFD Cert, enter it onto his register and then transfer to your friend in the usual way. No carriers/couriers involved, no hassle with it getting held up in customs etc. etc.

 

[barongcw]

Apologies in advance if this question has already been asked and answered elsewhere on here, but as a search didn't turn anything up, here goes...

A friend of mine (no, really!) has committed himself to buy a rifle from a dealer in Germany and is planning to have it sent to the RFD he uses in the UK. As it happens, the same UK RFD will also be visiting the German RFD's premises in a few weeks' time and so could collect the rifle in person.

My friend's question is: which method of getting the rifle to the UK would be easier, and what paperwork would be required in each case?

I had supposed that all the UK RFD would need to do would be to send the German RFD a copy of his details, after which the German RFD would post the rifle to him, but maybe it's more complicated than that.

If anyone has experience of this kind of sale/transfer, it would be great to know how you did it.

TIA

I buy most of my rifles on the continent. What I do is as follows:

1 I obtain the details, number etc from the rifle I want to buy.
2 I contact my local Firearms Department and ask them to put the rifle on my FAC.
3 I send a copy of this to the German dealer.
4 He then sends the rifle to my local approved gunshop where I collect it.

 

[User00003]

post it first class

 

[Orion]

post it first class

You may laugh but..............................

When I was a S.5 RFD dealing in tranquilising equipment we would have rifles and pistols sent from the European manufacturer, (in a country where they were rightly treated as little more than low-powered air weapons), and...................... you've probably guessed it, they would arrive via normal parcel delivery service and would often be left on the doorstep!

 

[Mr. Gain]

First of all, many thanks to everyone for being so helpful.

I buy most of my rifles on the continent. What I do is as follows:

1 I obtain the details, number, etc. from the rifle I want to buy.
2 I contact my local Firearms Department and ask them to put the rifle on my FAC.
3 I send a copy of this to the German dealer.
4 He then sends the rifle to my local approved gunshop where I collect it.

My friend might be able to do this, but other replies suggest that there's more to the arrangements between the German dealer and your local gun shop than simply posting/receiving a parcel. Or does the fact that it's on your FAC before it's send to from Germany avoid the need for any additional paperwork?

You're saying that between his RFD and the German firearms dealer they don't have an idea of what to do?

From what I've been told it certainly sounds that way. I guess there's a first time for everything for everyone.

No idea if the German dealer has any authorisations to obtain but............

Me neither.

Assuming he is travelling by vehicle.

He is.

Then if his RFD is at the German's premises wouldn't it be a more convenient all round for him to personally collect the rifle, bring it into the UK, declare it at customs with the supporting evidence of his RFD Cert, enter it onto his register and then transfer to your friend in the usual way? No carriers/couriers involved, no hassle with it getting held up in customs etc. etc.

That would sound like a good plan. I think the problem is that the German RFD is as unsure about the legal protocol as he is, and wants to know what the rules are from a reliable source before making the transfer.

For us to supply a customer in Europe we need firstly a copy of the RFD cert of the dealer it is being sent to, a prior import consent from the recipient country police to allow the end user permission to import, and other forms such as End User Declarations etcand only then we can apply for an Export Licence. It is so much trouble and hassle to send an air rifle, let alone a firearm outside the UK, we wont do it at all now.When/If this Export licence is approved then the rifle can be exported into the destination country (UK), and sent via a registered courier who are allowed to transfer firearms. I presume as Germany is also in the EU the reverse will apply.....The German Dealer will need probably an Export Licence to allow the rifle to be removed from the residing country permanently and you may also need a Prior Import Consent from UK Customs to allow the import, not to mention prior authority to purchase possess on a Section 1 FAC. Speak to the dealer in Germany, he should be able to supply any forms you need to complete.

The possibility of all this being necessary is probably what's worrying both parties enough for me to get asked to try and clear matters up on this forum. Unfortunately neither of the dealers concerned has experience of this process.

The people who deal with Exporting Firearms and other Dual Use goods controlled for export in the UK, are http://www.bis.gov.uk/ but they wont deal with the import from Germany, but can advise you who to speak with, but I assume the German dealer will have a similar government agency to take advise from.

Many thanks for the link. It all seems designed to complicate things. Why can't they set up a simple click-though guide with online forms? All the same, it does seem worth using the contact info on there to ask these questions. I'll pass the link on to my friend and his RFD.

Re. Proof Marks, I think the rifle in question is a late 20thC Mauser, so it should be OK on that score at least.

Thanks again.

 

[Orion]

Although Scott Country has highlighted all the hassle that exporting a firearm from the UK entails, (I used to have the same with S.5 but the volume wasn't high and I got the systems sorted so could cope), it often isn't the same hassle doing it the other way round.

When bringing firearms back in from Denmark and Germany, (this was in the early nineties) it merely involved the the procedure I outlined in my earlier post - selling dealer made invoice and entry that he had sold to UK RFD Noxxx, I travelled back to UK and declared at customs, (who 9 times out of 10 weren't interested once shown RFD cert), then entered in the register when back at home base.

From what barongcw has stated, it appears that the German dealers still do not have to jump through the export licence hoops that UK RFDs have to, and can sell/transfer to Uk customers very easily on sight of the relevant certification to possess, (entry on FAC or RFD certificate).

 

[barongcw]

First of all, many thanks to everyone for being so helpful.



My friend might be able to do this, but other replies suggest that there's more to the arrangements between the German dealer and your local gun shop than simply posting/receiving a parcel. Or does the fact that it's on your FAC before it's send to from Germany avoid the need for any additional paperwork?

.

Yes

 

[barongcw]

post it first class

I did that once, it worked but surprise surprise the local Firearms people asked me very politely not to do it again!"

 

[JMS906]

A friend of mine (no, really!) has committed himself to buy a rifle from a dealer in Germany and is planning to have it sent to the RFD he uses in the UK. As it happens, the same UK RFD will also be visiting the German RFD's premises in a few weeks' time and so could collect the rifle in person.

My friend's question is: which method of getting the rifle to the UK would be easier, and what paperwork would be required in each case?

The German RFD will have to deal with any German specific requirements. From this end, for an RFD to accept the rifle is no problem at all, as it is an intra-EU movement it is covered by EU regulations. I have a RFD certificate (though I am not a general retailer) and I received a rifle from Italy a couple of years ago. All I had to do was complete, sign, and return an Italian export form to the exporter. The rifle was then shipped to me and duly arrived. That was it, no special requirements on this side. The shipment was accompanied by the documentation from teh exporter and sailed straight through Customs. It simply arrived at my door one monring.

Coincientally, but not required for imports from the EU, I have a general import licence so I can receive firearms from almost anywhere in the world (but not from Iran!).

-JMS

 

[BwchDanas]

Just a quick question, I'll ask it here as it's recent and pretty relevant. What is the score with a private import of a shotgun from family members in another EU country (Slovakia is in the EU - right?)

 

[JMS906]

If you have a shotgun certificate, all you have to do is declare it ot the airline on leaving Slovakia, and it should be intercepted at this end. You go to the red channel and tell Customs that you have a shotgun to collect. Show them your shotgun certificate, and be on your way. Since you are importing it, they may charge your import duty and VAT, and maybe not. The gun might end up on the carousel, so check there first.

If you are landing at an airport that doesn't have full time Customs (e.g. Newcastle) then you collect your gun from the G4S people or, at Teesside airport, you ask for the police and they check your SGC.

It would probably be a good idea to have the shotgun entered on your SGC before you arrive here. Once back in the UK, you write tot he polcie advising that you have imported the shotgun.

If you want shipped, then that is slightly different. Whoever is sending it needs to sort out export documents, send a copy to the RFD here for completion of the EU documents, and it gets shipped to the UK RFD.

-JMS

 

[Old Waltonian]

The German RFD will have to deal with any German specific requirements. From this end, for an RFD to accept the rifle is no problem at all, as it is an intra-EU movement it is covered by EU regulations. I have a RFD certificate (though I am not a general retailer) and I received a rifle from Italy a couple of years ago. All I had to do was complete, sign, and return an Italian export form to the exporter. The rifle was then shipped to me and duly arrived. That was it, no special requirements on this side. The shipment was accompanied by the documentation from teh exporter and sailed straight through Customs. It simply arrived at my door one monring.

Coincientally, but not required for imports from the EU, I have a general import licence so I can receive firearms from almost anywhere in the world (but not from Iran!).

-JMS

I have been looking back at threads dealing with the importation of firearms and associated components in an attempt to learn what the present situation is. Can I ask if you still have a general import licence and if so, would this apply to EU countries now that the UK is no longer an EU member? Thanks.

 

[375win]

Sorry, initally looked at the top post before realising this was from 2012.
We are not in the EU any more and the export of firearms from Germany for example is now an export to a third country. This has complicated matters no end. You'll also be liable to UK VAT and import duties.

 

[tim@tcs]

I did that once, it worked but surprise surprise the local Firearms people asked me very politely not to do it again!"

I bought a part for the rear of a swedish mauser bolt in the USA, I sent a copy of my RFD and I awaited the inevitable email from customs but was surprised to have it land on my doormat in a jiffy bag. I fessed up to my FEO and he was gobsmacked. He calmed down a bit when I explained it would only hurt if you trod on it barefoot . He smiled and asked that I try not to do it again. I said I had only ordered and paid for it, posting it wasnt my choice. I know of cases years ago when items such as a slide for a Colt 1911 was sent in the post, accidentally opened, resealed with tape and an apology note added by the sorting office. not me!

 

[Old Waltonian]

Sorry, initally looked at the top post before realising this was from 2012.
We are not in the EU any more and the export of firearms from Germany for example is now an export to a third country. This has complicated matters no end. You'll also be liable to UK VAT and import duties.

Yes, it's a very old thread but I've been working my way through the legal stuff recently in an attempt to get some clarity on buying a firearm from abroad Specifically, I'm looking into the possibility of importing a rifle component (not a complete rifle) from Switzerland and I was hoping that it would simply be a matter of the retailer/firearms dealer over there sending the item directly to an RFD here but I'm guessing now that that's an over-simplification at best. Appreciate your input all the same.

 

[25 Sharps]

Yes, it's a very old thread but I've been working my way through the legal stuff recently in an attempt to get some clarity on buying a firearm from abroad Specifically, I'm looking into the possibility of importing a rifle component (not a complete rifle) from Switzerland and I was hoping that it would simply be a matter of the retailer/firearms dealer over there sending the item directly to an RFD here but I'm guessing now that that's an over-simplification at best. Appreciate your input all the same.

Is the component a pressure bearing part?

 

[Heym SR20]

Hello,

I have only ever done this the other way round i.e sending outside the country.

For us to supply a customer in Europe we need firstly a copy of the RFD cert of the dealer it is being sent to, a prior import consent from the recipient country police to allow the end user permission to import, and other forms such as End User Declarations etcand only then we can apply for an Export Licence.

It is so much trouble and hassle to send an air rifle, let alone a firearm outside the UK, we wont do it at all now.

When/If this Export licence is approved then the rifle can be exported into the destination country (UK), and sent via a registered courier who are allowed to transfer firearms.

I presume as Germany is also in the EU the reverse will apply.....

The German Dealer will need probably an Export Licence to allow the rifle to be removed from the residing country permanently and you may also need a Prior Import Consent from UK Customs to allow the import, not to mention prior authority to purchase possess on a Section 1 FAC.

Speak to the dealer in Germany, he should be able to supply any forms you need to complete.

The people who deal with Exporting Firearms and other Dual Use goods controlled for export in the UK, are Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy but they wont deal with the import from Germany, but can advise you who to speak with, but I assume the German dealer will have a similar government agency to take advise from.

Another thing worth watching out for.

IF the rifle does not bear UK Proof marks (or at least EU Proof marks that the UK proof house accepts as UK approved for use in the UK) you MAY need to have the rifle reproofed before the dealer can transfer it to you.

Again speak to the Proof House, tell them where the rifle was made(country of origin), and what proof marks it bears, and they will be able to best advise you if it will need reproofing for legal use/re-sale in the UK.

Firearms & Ammunition Testing | Birmingham Proof House

One thing for sure is you simply wont be able to just bring it back into the country, even as a firearms dealer, and the sending country needing an export licence will no doubt be a must!

People can bring rifles to and from EU countries with an EC Firearms Pass, but this is your own rifle for use in the country i.e hunting trips etc, it does not cover a permanent export.

At a very minimum just make sure the export is registered with UK customs BEFORE you commit to accepting the purchase.

Hope this helps

SC

On the proof marks its CIP proof marks that are recognised in other CIP jurisdictions. Plenty of EU countries are outwith CIP, eg Denmark, plenty are, eg Germany, Austria, France and Belgium, alongwith others such as Argentina.

Some major gunmaking countries such as Turkey and USA are not.

If a gun made outside CIP is brought into CIP it has to go through proof.

So a Turkish or US gun will have UK (or another CIP) proof mark, whereas a German gun can be sold in UK with a German Proof.

Homepage | Drupal

cip-bobp.org

 

[375win]

Three issues to resolve:
i) selling dealer in EU needs to get an export licence for third country
ii) you need to get an import licence
iii) EU dealer needs to find a courier that will transport the item to UK
iv) UK customs & VAT
v) depending you will need reproof and marking.
Problems:
i) is complicated in some EU countries.
ii) doable
iii) difficult and expensive
iv & v) adds futher expense.
Do it if you must and good luck.