Real life testament on cheaper scopes true abilities in the field

[Anser anser]

As per title.I think we all know that money buys high quality and in most cases exceptional reliability. But snobbery is endemic in wildfowling i have found for 50 years nearly and in deer stalking(surprise surprise) and every other sport i guess. So--without further ado, Farquars and Tarquins hold your cyber fingers at bay please ,your lovely scope is lovely we know but in the words of Dr Evil--Zip it and lets hear from those chaps (and chapettes) who use scopes that dont cost and arm and a leg and lets hear if they truthfully stand up to recoil, the weather ,hold a zero etc etc. There are many on here that would be delighted to know what cheaper scopes out there do the job very well im sure.

 

[Tim.243]

As per title.I think we all know that money buys high quality and in most cases exceptional reliability. But snobbery is endemic in wildfowling i have found for 50 years nearly and in deer stalking(surprise surprise) and every other sport i guess. So--without further ado, Farquars and Tarquins hold your cyber fingers at bay please ,your lovely scope is lovely we know but in the words of Dr Evil--Zip it and lets hear from those chaps (and chapettes) who use scopes that dont cost and arm and a leg and lets hear if they truthfully stand up to recoil, the weather ,hold a zero etc etc. There are many on here that would be delighted to know what cheaper scopes out there do the job very well im sure.

Can't help you, Drone 10 Kahles Swarovski oh and a ex Army Tru-Lux scope but use 12 quid's worth of B&Q sticks

 

[HonestJohn]

The only ‘ok’ cheaper scopes for deer rifles were the old tasco jap made, old weavers and redfield, along with some leupolds vx1 /2 older models

 

[Ronin]

There are some good quality cheaper scopes out there which get decent reviews

But there is always a trade off in terms of optical quality / tracking reliability and build robustness

The Tract scopes and Maven seem
To get decent write ups

There has been comprehensive testing of mod range scopes on Snipers Hide written by username “bigjimfish” who has equipment to carry out optics testing (clarity, light transmission, chromatic aberration etc) so not reliant on “this is ace” type of rubbish done by some testers

Hard facts rather than opine

Personally, I’d source a decent second hand tier one scope over a mid range new one

You simply won’t go wrong with Schmidt, Kahles, Swarowski, Hendsohlt, Zero Compromise, March etc etc

Unless a very abused example is presented that would be my own thoughts on the matter

Your own eyes will also tell you whether a scope is suited to you or not

Having looked through a multitude of glass over the years I’ve personally found that colour rendition on the cheaper scopes simply is not there - though this again is highly personally to the individual

 

[ASHCROFT9491]

Depends on what you mean by cheap

Under 300 will get you a fixed power schmidt that are more than capable and account for a lot of deer taken over the year

 

[Anser anser]

The only ‘ok’ cheaper scopes for deer rifles were the old tasco jap made, old weavers and redfield, along with some leupolds vx1 /2 older models

Appreciate the input there. I think it would be useful if you stated if this was based on first had experience with a particular scope. . I dont use a cheaper scope btw but i am interested to see if the bias is pure snobbery or based on epic fails.a few minutes lost at dusk perhaps ?.I am of course aware of extra minutes etc less distortion round the edges of field of view--the list goes on, but perhaps some spend less time admiring the field of view and simply line up a shot and take it?

 

[Anser anser]

Depends on what you mean by cheap

Under 300 will get you a fixed power schmidt that are more than capable and account for a lot of deer taken over the year

agreed , im thinking more on the nikko scopes or bushnell jobs for example the ones that claim to do the job and have a rather exciting you tube video ,the ones we see for sale on here that are not exceptional i agree but simply go unsung.You see its the same every time someone asks about scopes. theres a short list rattled off in robotic fashion regarding high quality so noone feels they are going to be pointed at,all rather amusing really.. If we shove this dogmatic list to the side theres a world of optics out there. most may well be utter pants--but not all im sure.

 

[TringSaint]

2x Rudolph’s, 1x Delta, 1x Nikon and 1x Nikko Stirling.
All do their jobs on the rifles they are fitted to without any issue and can meet the needs of 90%+ of any hunter in the field.

I will now await the usual abuse I get for daring to say that you don’t have to spend thousands on glass in order to stalk deer!!

 

[finnbear270]

I wouldn't hurry to put Bushnell in with the duffers.

 

[Anser anser]

2x Rudolph’s, 1x Delta, 1x Nikon and 1x Nikko Stirling.
All do their jobs on the rifles they are fitted to without any issue and can meet the needs of 90%+ of any hunter in the field.

I will now await the usual abuse I get for daring to say that you don’t have to spend thousands on glass in order to stalk deer!!

exactly my point. I own a decent quality scope or two but also have a few not so highly praised .i know lads using manufacturers constantly downplayed on here .Simply intersted in what scopes are being used that are doing their job and not on the same old shortlist

 

[lochty]

My first scope was a swarovski 6 x 42 that cost £300. Is that cheap enough?

 

[gixer1]

Depends what you class as cheap, I use the best glass I can get on my stalking rifles, so have a Z8i on one and a Z6i on another and when I got into long range target shooting I applied the same theory and went and put one of my Swarovski scopes on the rifle - it ran out of elevation and the reticle was far too fine for what I needed, so then I went on and bought a Nightforce - really very good, and excellent for adjustment, reticle clarity, parallax, however, the illuminated reticle is cack (NX8)…I was watching a lot of Texas plinking, X-ring and Backfire you tube videos at the time and a name I kept hearing but had never seen this side of the pond kept coming up - Arken Optics….seemed like every second person had one in the states.

So I sought one out and on seeing the £500 price tag I thought, “it’s going to be cack, but I can stick it on a 22LR for plinking if it is”……

It really was a revelation, everything from the packaging when the scope arrived, to the excellent idea of listing the torques on the components you need to tighten, the reticle was what I wanted (a kind of floating dot with box lines around it) so I figured it would likely be poor on adjustment/tracking and holding zero - so I tested it against the Nightforce and ran it round a measured square and it tracked every bit as well as the Nightforce….i started using it on my 22 but then put it on my long range centre fire and found the clarity and functionality was excellent, the illuminated reticle was great.

Basically I bought another couple and actually contacted Arken for some info and suggestions, I ended up communicating with a guy there fairly regularly providing feedback and info, they were nice enough to send some goodies to try and took some suggestions.

I ended up being one of the first to have the new EP5 Gen2 scopes in the U.K., and it’s still on my long range rifle today.

These scopes are fantastic for the money (£500-700) but they would be fantastic as 4 x that - in fact there are numerous videos where experienced shooters are asked to guess the price point and they guess way higher on the Arkens.

I really do think the price will increase on them as time goes on and demand increases.

The bad points about them are -

They are heavy when compared to a Nightforce/swaro.

They are enormous in width and height compared to Nightforce,

The clarity at last light is no where near a swaro/zeiss etc.

Most of these downsides are not a consideration for a dedicated target scope though.

I still have the NF - they are still great scopes but they are not 4x better than the Arken considering they are 4x the price!

Hope this helps!

 

[TringSaint]

exactly my point. I own a decent quality scope or two but also have a few not so highly praised .i know lads using manufacturers constantly downplayed on here .Simply intersted in what scopes are being used that are doing their job and not on the same old shortlist

It’s less about the glass and more about the person (in so many ways!!)
I have consistently shot c40 deer a year with my 3 stalking rifles and I have never found them to limit my ability to shoot right out to either the hour or the point where I can no longer see the backstop sufficiently to ensure the shot is safe.
I do appreciate that some like to have top branded gear, and that is just fine, but that doesn’t mean that they can benefit from the additional capabilities of that piece of kit.
I also know that some on here will select scopes specifically for woodland stalking as they need as much light as possible due to the faster loss of light in the evenings. However, in that case wouldn’t a day/night scope be a better option?
I mean, why spank £2k on top glass when you could get a zulus or whatever for <£600 and it will give you clear images long after the glass has reached its light limit.
I wonder if you looked at all of the components in a top marque scope, how many bits came from China or wherever, and it’s only the glass and final build that happens in the European factory!!

 

[Crowstalker]

My most cost scope is a Leuopold I bought second hand for about £200 a number of years ago. I couldn't tell you the model off the top of my head. I was using only hawke scopes before this. There was a marked difference in light transmission and clarity.

It sits on my 222 happily.

To be fair my other rifles all have hawker on them and whilst they are not just as good as my "expensive " scope they do the job more than adequately. The thing I really like about them is the ability to adjust parralex something the Leuopold can't do.

I am learning buy what you want and like the first time and not just the cheapest thing because it's cheap. But don't discount the lower end market either. Go have a play with different prodand see if it works for you.

I can definitely see how the snobbery is a thing, you get that in many ares of life.... oh my 22-250 is better than your 222.... , it's that mentality from the primary school playground that some people never grow up from.

 

[Acm]

Surely there’s no cheaper scope out there now than a gen 1 alpex, will be better at first and last light than any conventional glass scope. Something I can attest too is as the toughness, I’m over two years in now and have no perceptible battery deterioration, 5 different zero profiles so you can be zeroed with multiple bullets or at multiple ranges.
Built in night vision, built in filming, zero saved as a digital memory so much harder to “knockoff zero”. Ive seen these sold on this site for £250, new for £350. Yes I’ve also got the newer alpex and it is better, but the gen 1 at those prices is an insane bargain.

 

[TringSaint]

Indeed - price based snobbery is very much alive!
My 3 stalking rifles are a Steyr SM12, Winchester 70 Coyote and a Remington 700 SPS. None of them cost more that £1800 for the bare rifle (two cost <£750) and the most expensive rig came to about £3k.
Are they as blingy as a carbon Sako or blazer with top S&B glass and all the carbon trimmings? No. But they still harvest deer perfectly well and can out perform me.
And it’s not that I can’t afford to buy into the Blaser experience - I could, quite comfortably, but I choose not to spend more than I need to on the tools that I use (would I shoot better with a £10k set up? Nope!), but I do get why some ppl like to buy the ‘best’.

 

[Anser anser]

My first scope was a swarovski 6 x 42 that cost £300. Is that cheap enough?

Same I also have one m8

 

[Anser anser]

Depends what you class as cheap, I use the best glass I can get on my stalking rifles, so have a Z8i on one and a Z6i on another and when I got into long range target shooting I applied the same theory and went and put one of my Swarovski scopes on the rifle - it ran out of elevation and the reticle was far too fine for what I needed, so then I went on and bought a Nightforce - really very good, and excellent for adjustment, reticle clarity, parallax, however, the illuminated reticle is cack (NX8)…I was watching a lot of Texas plinking, X-ring and Backfire you tube videos at the time and a name I kept hearing but had never seen this side of the pond kept coming up - Arken Optics….seemed like every second person had one in the states.

So I sought one out and on seeing the £500 price tag I thought, “it’s going to be cack, but I can stick it on a 22LR for plinking if it is”……

It really was a revelation, everything from the packaging when the scope arrived, to the excellent idea of listing the torques on the components you need to tighten, the reticle was what I wanted (a kind of floating dot with box lines around it) so I figured it would likely be poor on adjustment/tracking and holding zero - so I tested it against the Nightforce and ran it round a measured square and it tracked every bit as well as the Nightforce….i started using it on my 22 but then put it on my long range centre fire and found the clarity and functionality was excellent, the illuminated reticle was great.

Basically I bought another couple and actually contacted Arken for some info and suggestions, I ended up communicating with a guy there fairly regularly providing feedback and info, they were nice enough to send some goodies to try and took some suggestions.

I ended up being one of the first to have the new EP5 Gen2 scopes in the U.K., and it’s still on my long range rifle today.

These scopes are fantastic for the money (£500-700) but they would be fantastic as 4 x that - in fact there are numerous videos where experienced shooters are asked to guess the price point and they guess way higher on the Arkens.

I really do think the price will increase on them as time goes on and demand increases.

The bad points about them are -

They are heavy when compared to a Nightforce/swaro.

They are enormous in width and height compared to Nightforce,

The clarity at last light is no where near a swaro/zeiss etc.

Most of these downsides are not a consideration for a dedicated target scope though.

I still have the NF - they are still great scopes but they are not 4x better than the Arken considering they are 4x the price!

Hope this helps!

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what models have you used m8? I done a small bit research on Arken and was intersted

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I have made the transition from cheap scopes through to mid range scopes up to high end and now I have moved over to digital.
I only had issues with an MTC scope that changed poi when changing zoom. Returned and replaced under warranty. All others seemed to work fine. I never bothered with trying to move the reticle to see if it would shoot a square and then return to zero.
Some had nice clicks, some didn’t.
Depth of field, and colours as noted by others could be less.

The main thing from all scopes was last light gathering. That was one of the main points you were paying for. To get the most of the time, you had to have a high end scope to get the last light. This, say 15 years ago, was the preserve of Zeiss and Swarovski, and one or two others.
Then you had various upstarts come along who were pretty darn good.
The thing is with glass, you can only improve so much with optical quality if you are a high end manufacturer whereas the upstarts get to buy better glass and machines and get closer and closer to the high end so it is hard to quantify the difference.

This of course leads to the move to digital. That is where all the development will be going over the next few years.
The big players will be worried about this, just look at how busy the stands are at the shows. Those selling digital scopes are rammed. I was amazed by how good the last light capability of my C50 was in comparison to my glass, when it first came out.
And as most are driven by money, why spend £3000 plus on a high end glass scope, when an £800 scope will do most of the work.
I took the decision, and apologies for going off topic,( but I do think it is relevant, ) this year I sold my Z6i. I thought that would be a scope for life, but for my requirements, a digital covers me better. There is no circumstance (yet) that I regret my decision. For me, and for people coming into shooting, most will, I bet, go straight to digital. I have just been training a young(sic) lad who has gained his fac and went straight to a Hik Alpex. Money was tight and he wanted the best for what he needed.

My final thought. I would not be surprised if the big players come out with a digital scope of their own in the next year or so. Just think of the phone every business was using until the iPhone came out and overnight sales crashed.

Anyhow, just my take on things.

 

[gixer1]

what models have you used m8? I done a small bit research on Arken and was intersted

Hi Anser,

The EP-4’s and EP5’s both Gen 1 and 2.

I’ve also use the SH’s and Zulu’s but not owned one.