Anser anser
Well-Known Member
34mm tubes bugger that would be more mounts being bought
Real life testament on cheaper scopes true abilities in the field
- Thread starter Anser anser
- Start date
You were robbed. Mine was £275
And like an idiot I sold it for a variable before realising the error of my ways.
Anser anser
Well-Known Member
thats whats on my 243 just now .Cannot fault it and will not change it for anything else.
i can in theory have any glass on the planet on my main stalking rifle if I wanted, but happily use a second hand Delta Titanium 2.5-15x56. Cost me £450 from memory. Gets used most days, regularly shoots out to 600m and accounts for hundreds of deer every year. I never really feel the need to go out and change it despite having had personally in my cabinet before S&B Polat, Zeiss V8, Swaro Z6i, Blaser B1/B2 and various others in the past. Yes they are better but the difference is so small I just can’t be bothered to make any changes. An extra spend of £1500-2500 might buy me a min or two of extra shooting time, but even though I shoot more than the average amount of deer per year I don’t really recall many times where I have lost shooting opportunities because of glass quality.
If i were to expand my answer though and we were looking at the best value low light scope for deer stalking then a 30mm tubes digital NV like a Hik 4K will spank any glass on the planet for the first and last hours of stalking. Once the sun is up it’s a different story, but for those two hours…
If i were to expand my answer though and we were looking at the best value low light scope for deer stalking then a 30mm tubes digital NV like a Hik 4K will spank any glass on the planet for the first and last hours of stalking. Once the sun is up it’s a different story, but for those two hours…
They do a really good quality single piece mount for £60 or halo rings - both are very good quality.34mm tubes bugger that would be more mounts being bought
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t pay over £150 for one these days. Love them to bits, but so many about you can find one or negotiate one far far below £275. Some of the best scopes made!You were robbed. Mine was £275
And like an idiot I sold it for a variable before realising the error of my ways.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I started with some cheaper Burris scopes that during daylight were fine but definitely lacked low light ability.
I then had a couple of Zeiss Conquest scopes, so lower end of the Zeiss market. These were better in terms of low light performance but they lacked I ternal adjustment, so much so that on one rifle I ran out of windage and couldn't use the scope.
I had a Vortex PST 6-24 I think which was good in daylight but the higher mag and lower quality glass coatings meant in low light it wasn't very good.
I then moved to a Delta Titanium HD 2.5-15 to replace the 3-12 Conquest and this was a massive improvement and a much cheaper option. The mag range was better, low light performance was better and the illuminated dot was considerably better.
So much so I bought a Delta Stryker HD 4-30 and most recently a 1.5-9 for a woodland stalking rifle. The Delta all perform much better than their price would indicate, both in terms of reliability, tracking and especially low light performance.
I have had extensive use of a S&B 5-25 through work which performed as you'd expect in a range setting but if I was spending my money I'd choose the Delta Stryker. The S&B may be more robust which I'd value if my life depended on it but I didn't notice anything in the performance stakes between them. Low light on the S&B with the high mag and busy reticle meant I felt the performance wasn't that great.
I then had a couple of Zeiss Conquest scopes, so lower end of the Zeiss market. These were better in terms of low light performance but they lacked I ternal adjustment, so much so that on one rifle I ran out of windage and couldn't use the scope.
I had a Vortex PST 6-24 I think which was good in daylight but the higher mag and lower quality glass coatings meant in low light it wasn't very good.
I then moved to a Delta Titanium HD 2.5-15 to replace the 3-12 Conquest and this was a massive improvement and a much cheaper option. The mag range was better, low light performance was better and the illuminated dot was considerably better.
So much so I bought a Delta Stryker HD 4-30 and most recently a 1.5-9 for a woodland stalking rifle. The Delta all perform much better than their price would indicate, both in terms of reliability, tracking and especially low light performance.
I have had extensive use of a S&B 5-25 through work which performed as you'd expect in a range setting but if I was spending my money I'd choose the Delta Stryker. The S&B may be more robust which I'd value if my life depended on it but I didn't notice anything in the performance stakes between them. Low light on the S&B with the high mag and busy reticle meant I felt the performance wasn't that great.
I have been stunned at the incredible colour definition that comes with paying for decent optics: I have been picking up 2nd hand March scopes and fitting them to my rifles, selling off other brands in their place. Absolutely incredible that the colour definition is far better than one's own eyes, the light gathering turns dusk into day, and the x50 to x80 zoom magnification means you can check over the beast as if you are standing next to it before dialing it back to x12 for a wider view before pulling the trigger.
Paying for decent optics should be the first recommendation any stalker gets. Some old hands do wonders with a 1950 x6 mag on a 42mm tube, but miss out on the vivid wildlife images that only comes from great optics. You will not regret saving up for good optics, even if you go 2nd hand to make your budget fit.
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Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.
I have an assortment of rifles wearing scopes of different price points and quality ranging (!) from bottom end long eye relief 4x scout-mounted on my Mosins through to an excellent S&B on my .308. For me they all do the job for which they were mounted but the star (did it again) in terms of light-gathering is the Zulus which gives an incredible picture before and after dusk - even in colour mode; switch it to black and white and it really is remarkable what you can see.
Then you get a rangefinder and full IR included….
I have an assortment of rifles wearing scopes of different price points and quality ranging (!) from bottom end long eye relief 4x scout-mounted on my Mosins through to an excellent S&B on my .308. For me they all do the job for which they were mounted but the star (did it again) in terms of light-gathering is the Zulus which gives an incredible picture before and after dusk - even in colour mode; switch it to black and white and it really is remarkable what you can see.
Then you get a rangefinder and full IR included….
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
My limited experience of "cheaper" in the field is based on long range target, with the caveat being my wonky old astigmatism eyes. I found that cheaper stuff like Delta and mid range Nightforce I simply could not get to focus clearly at distance, often less than 1000yd. Looked through a ZCO, realised it wasn't just my eyes, and then sold off what I had, scopes, spare organs, access to my nether regions etc, and bought a March. No regrets.
I have found of late, as have others, NF customer service has been called into play more, and also found a wee bit lacking compared to years ago. I doubt I'll go down that road again, except maybe for the .22.
I have found of late, as have others, NF customer service has been called into play more, and also found a wee bit lacking compared to years ago. I doubt I'll go down that road again, except maybe for the .22.
I still had until maybe ten years ago my late father's military 7x50 binoculars he had in WWIi for aircraft identification when "pinned" in searchlights and spotting fallof shot with anti aircraft artillery fire they had "mils" engraved on the left lens. I compared them to a cheaply bought pair of Japanese made binoculars from a charity shop of the sort that were popular in the 1980s with all sorts of British or German sounding names or sold by the AA and similar. The Japanese pair were just as good. And modern Leica ina different league. Lens making has moved on since 1939 and what was top drawer then isn't near the quality of even today's mid-price stuff.
Or has it? It isn't just about the lenses is it?
Having said that my now, only 'scoped rifle has a Zeiss Diavari C 3-9x36 on it. I did have a Distal C 4x32 (a 1" body) bought in Paris that a Frenchman had used epoxy Araldite to cement it in to his 26mm continental ring set. It spent three days in my freezer to crack the Araldite off by using the expansion difference under warm water to thaw it when frozen to do that. It had no affect at all on the quality of the view through the lenses either when in the frozen and the ice brushed off them state or later when thawed out and the Araldite peeled off.
So yes modern mid-price optics may have better lenses but how does the whole package stand up to extreme cold weather or extreme wet weather or an old fashioned soaking? My father's binoculars served him through some of worst winter nights of WWIi. Would those 1980s Japanese binoculars have done the same?
Or has it? It isn't just about the lenses is it?
Having said that my now, only 'scoped rifle has a Zeiss Diavari C 3-9x36 on it. I did have a Distal C 4x32 (a 1" body) bought in Paris that a Frenchman had used epoxy Araldite to cement it in to his 26mm continental ring set. It spent three days in my freezer to crack the Araldite off by using the expansion difference under warm water to thaw it when frozen to do that. It had no affect at all on the quality of the view through the lenses either when in the frozen and the ice brushed off them state or later when thawed out and the Araldite peeled off.
So yes modern mid-price optics may have better lenses but how does the whole package stand up to extreme cold weather or extreme wet weather or an old fashioned soaking? My father's binoculars served him through some of worst winter nights of WWIi. Would those 1980s Japanese binoculars have done the same?
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lochty
Well-Known Member
I did the same. Then traded it for an 8 x 50.You were robbed. Mine was £275
And like an idiot I sold it for a variable before realising the error of my ways.
Koenig
Well-Known Member
I’ve always been an S&B man but was really impressed with the Lisenfeld Spezial fitted to a second hand Sauer I recently bought. I understand that anything without the Spezial branding is probably only suitable for a rimfire, but my 3-12x50 is robust, bright and well made. I had a mate look over it and he was also impressed. They come up periodically for about £100.
swagger700
Well-Known Member
I've swapped all my nightforce for arken, the vhr recticle and better turrets are good can't tell much difference at last light. £300 excellent value
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Considering intended useage, and initial outlay with regard to warranty, a bit like dog insurance. You can save money initially, set aside a bit in case you get hit with a repair bill (note those manufacturers who don't offer transferable warranty). You hope you'll not need to find out, but even expensive stuff goes wrong, gets sticky adjustments etc. I got hit with a bill over £400 to replace an objective lens on a Delta, which chipped with no apparent reason ( an issue also encountered by others it seems).
Turkish
Well-Known Member
I started off with a Simmonds Whitetail Variable back in the day. Had all the light gathering abilities of a sieve ..............
It wasn't long before I was made aware of the errors of my ways. My mentor asked why I was packing up so early when we were out in high seats. When he looked through my scope, and then let me look through his Swarovski I knew why.
He got me a great deal on a second hand Kahles 6 x 42 and I never looked back. Stupidly sold that scope with my first rifle. Should have kept both really.
The only thing I have noticed with getting older is the colour rendition of certain glass. I prefer Meopta to Swarovski these days. Just clearer to me.
But, with the advent of digital, and the Sumlight functions, all that goes out the window.
It wasn't long before I was made aware of the errors of my ways. My mentor asked why I was packing up so early when we were out in high seats. When he looked through my scope, and then let me look through his Swarovski I knew why.
He got me a great deal on a second hand Kahles 6 x 42 and I never looked back. Stupidly sold that scope with my first rifle. Should have kept both really.
The only thing I have noticed with getting older is the colour rendition of certain glass. I prefer Meopta to Swarovski these days. Just clearer to me.
But, with the advent of digital, and the Sumlight functions, all that goes out the window.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
So, based on all the above, is the optimal set up a ‘day’ rig with decent but not top end glass ( Delta, etc) and a ‘night’ rig with a day/night digital scope on it?
A does that mean I can personally justify to myself buying another rifle (here’s hoping!!
)
A does that mean I can personally justify to myself buying another rifle (here’s hoping!!
)
Overlay
Well-Known Member
As a comparison I have zeiss, swaro and S&B and all are faultless and never had a problem with any of them perfection
But none are under 1k to buy
To use the pard 007 so for the PCP, 22LR, 22 WMR ,22 HORNET AND .204 I got 5 hawke scopes all the same mag and reticule and they each get used a lot, to date have only had to return one and that was purely just the parralax control knob wouldn’t move it just got stiffer and stiffer to a point it wouldn’t turn,
E mail to hawke sent it back and replaced no quibble real good customer service, @ £350 a pop compared to what can be 2k plus they are real good value for money and they work, particularly on the smaller calibres and as a NV, it just means you have a shelf full of very expensive scopes gathering dust.
my only thing is I wouldn’t put a hawke on my stalking rifles I prefer the very sharp image as a day scope you get from the euro scopes that is after all what you pay for , for small calibres NV hawke are real good value
But none are under 1k to buy
To use the pard 007 so for the PCP, 22LR, 22 WMR ,22 HORNET AND .204 I got 5 hawke scopes all the same mag and reticule and they each get used a lot, to date have only had to return one and that was purely just the parralax control knob wouldn’t move it just got stiffer and stiffer to a point it wouldn’t turn,
E mail to hawke sent it back and replaced no quibble real good customer service, @ £350 a pop compared to what can be 2k plus they are real good value for money and they work, particularly on the smaller calibres and as a NV, it just means you have a shelf full of very expensive scopes gathering dust.
my only thing is I wouldn’t put a hawke on my stalking rifles I prefer the very sharp image as a day scope you get from the euro scopes that is after all what you pay for , for small calibres NV hawke are real good value
