Florida Police Officer accidentally shoots red light jumper...
- Thread starter fixedwheel
- Start date
I dare say there are also safer conditions available.
Of course I didn't. I've no particular use for a handgun even if it were legal. Nor any particular interest in guns which I'm not going to use. I've only had to carry one in two sets of circumstances and in neither (one being in South Africa) did I think it was a good idea to keep a round chambered.
However guns are guns, and keeping any gun loaded and chambered is risky. I entirely agree that it in some places it might be the lesser risk relative to the fear of violent crime, but if you choose to take a risk, even if the lesser risk, sometimes you will get the downside of it. I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the idea that daily life is like Charles Bronson's later career.
kenbro
Well-Known Member
So MPMI,
Do the police/ Military carry with a loaded chamber these days?
Me, I’d rather have a revolver for a daily carry gun, if I needed one.
Ken.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
I think this is why the guynin another thread was unhappy about the police pointing guns at him.
I hope she is charged with something
I hope she is charged with something
To clarify, the Glock is striker fired not a traditional hammer and firing pin. This striker is cocked and released solely by rearward pressure on the trigger and resets after each shot. The movement rearward of the trigger is blocked by the trigger safe system so Glocks are designed to be very safe, however people are not very safe and there have been several occurrences where people discharge a round in to themselves whilst holstering (by not taking their finger out of the flipping trigger guard 
)
)
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
I'm not MarinePMI, but yes they do. And since there are so few problems, even with low rate of interest and training among officials (at least police), I don't see a problem with that.
Here in Finland most problems have arised from "dry fire" after clearing your gun (end of shift and so on). So police have introduced bullet traps for some situation, and e.g. put a requirement in pistol tender process that dry firing isn't required when emptying the gun. IMHO very stupid and besides the point, but kind of illustrates that carrying "one in the chamber" is not the problem per se.
To my knowledge, yes, they do. There is no "Israeli carry" in most Police forces.
The military is a different story. If just standing watch, no, the pistol has a loaded mag, but an empty chamber. In an active combat zone or in special guard situations, then a "hot" weapon (locked and cocked) is allowed. But the safety is always on.
This female cop must not have gotten much training to keep her booger picker off the trigger. Probably a DEI hire...
kenbro
Well-Known Member
Mr . President already got his trigger finger, err pen on that one.
Thanks, Ken.
Cootmeurer
Well-Known Member
Sometimes we seem to think that all cops are natural masters of the gun, since they have to carry daily.
Quite the opposite. Several of my in-laws were law enforcement officers and I was more proficient with any firearm than they were. Depending on their department/agency they usually only had to qualify once annually or bi-annually. The majority of their training was in descalation procedures, suspect handling and rights, and that sort of thing.
My own military training was no better. Being Air Force I had to qualify annually on a course of fire with the M16/M4 and biennially with the pistol (first M38 - S&W revolver, then the M9 berretta).
However, I’ve also been a Concealed Carry Permittee for 25 plus years. In that time I’ve always carried with one in the chamber, and always had a good trigger protection holster. The physiology will explain that under times of high stress, your fine motor skills degrade greatly. That is not the time to be trying to pull out of the holster, rack the slide, and ensure a round is seated.
My estimation of this event is the female cop saw the gun, went into high stress, low fine motor skill mode, and fat fingered the trigger while simultaneously failing to ensure barrel was pointed in a safe direction.
Quite the opposite. Several of my in-laws were law enforcement officers and I was more proficient with any firearm than they were. Depending on their department/agency they usually only had to qualify once annually or bi-annually. The majority of their training was in descalation procedures, suspect handling and rights, and that sort of thing.
My own military training was no better. Being Air Force I had to qualify annually on a course of fire with the M16/M4 and biennially with the pistol (first M38 - S&W revolver, then the M9 berretta).
However, I’ve also been a Concealed Carry Permittee for 25 plus years. In that time I’ve always carried with one in the chamber, and always had a good trigger protection holster. The physiology will explain that under times of high stress, your fine motor skills degrade greatly. That is not the time to be trying to pull out of the holster, rack the slide, and ensure a round is seated.
My estimation of this event is the female cop saw the gun, went into high stress, low fine motor skill mode, and fat fingered the trigger while simultaneously failing to ensure barrel was pointed in a safe direction.
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
The female officer was also in very awkward position to draw the gun. When you're drawing from your own holster, the "geometry" more or less guarantees that the gun is not acutely pointing at you, and your wrist is in more or less natural/relaxed angle.
In the video it looked like the officer was trying to draw the gun with her left hand (while being right handed) and somehow help with the right hand. And she was positioned towards the victim, i.e. "down range" (direction that is usually safe to fire in training conditions). Every little thing keeps adding to the risk / narrowing the margin of error.
In the video it looked like the officer was trying to draw the gun with her left hand (while being right handed) and somehow help with the right hand. And she was positioned towards the victim, i.e. "down range" (direction that is usually safe to fire in training conditions). Every little thing keeps adding to the risk / narrowing the margin of error.
bluesako
Well-Known Member
matey your making me so jealous, i used to have pistols over here until they were banned in 97, i had one of the first clock 45 acp,s over here, and many colt 45,acps, i even had a 454 cassul 8.inch premier grade, now that was awsome. take care all the best bs.
Loler UK
Well-Known Member
No a glock does not have a safety catch. It has a 'safe action' trigger like the accu trigger on some rifles. Quiet a few pistols don't have user operated safety's, some can be decocked others not
The correct type of holster coupled with draw discipline makes it a very safe system. I would take a guess from the footage that this victim was not using an appropriate holster
It is standard practice to have one up the tube of a self defence handgun, the notable exception being the Israli IDF draw.
As a civilian i've been to plenty of places where being 'one up' is sadly part of day to day life, the additional time it takes to do an IDF style draw is the difference between life and death. A friend of mine's fumbled draw would have cost him his life (and probably his wife & 2 daughters) if the assailant's pistol had not jammed (twice)
We are pretty fortunate in the UK
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
If you're specifically talking about Israeli draw, it doesn't take any more time than regular draw (in the grand scheme of things). You just have to admire people who have it perfected.
But I've let myself be told that it's only a safety measure against inexperienced users with minimal training. And there's no law that forbids carrying loaded chamber (this is the usual claim). And several departments / individuals in IDF and otherwise carry loaded chamber.
Anyway, if you choose to carry empty chamber, you better make sure you know how to rack single handedly, and that your equipment supports it (usually rear sight agains belt or holster).
But I've let myself be told that it's only a safety measure against inexperienced users with minimal training. And there's no law that forbids carrying loaded chamber (this is the usual claim). And several departments / individuals in IDF and otherwise carry loaded chamber.
Anyway, if you choose to carry empty chamber, you better make sure you know how to rack single handedly, and that your equipment supports it (usually rear sight agains belt or holster).
The female officer should have been in backup stance ready to draw her own firearm, not f*****n about in a poor stance while her partner was dealing.
Loler UK
Well-Known Member
Yes, the IDF draw is great providing you're stood Isosceles facing the target with unrestricted use of both hands.
Drawing from a hip holster and returning fir promptly whilst sat in a modern car, worse still a soft sofa, now that's a challenge enough with one in the camber let alone without!
Similar threads
