Just friendly information for someone on SD!
Lead update.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Indeed, and this is an ongoing area of research and your various comments about potential cancer and dementia links etc have got my attention and are cause for concern. We are only recently fully understanding the social and economic impacts of lead exposure in children from leaded petrol and this study caught my interest:
The impact of childhood lead exposure on adult personality: Evidence from the United States, Europe, and a large-scale natural experiment
As regards the ongoing voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting, the science underpinning this is lead shot ingestion by a wide variety of bird species with lethal and sub-lethal impacts. This science is clear on this, but as demonstrated by discussions on this and other forums, this research is still disputed by some shooters. However, grandstanding by some aside, and certainly offline, in my experience, awareness and understanding is growing.
Birds eating lead shot, mistaking it as grit or seeds, is a primary exposure risk pathway. To refer back to your original point on lead levels in soils the following study on American woodcock is a clear and worrying example of secondary lead exposure in woodcock from eating earthworms with elevated levels of lead, and all this proven by stable lead isotopes to link back to lead shot.
American Woodcock Accumulate Lead According to Study
American Woodcock Accumulate Lead According to Study
The research itself is here:
Lead contamination in American woodcock (Scolopax minor) from Wisconsin
Lead contamination in American woodcock (Scolopax minor) from Wisconsin - PubMed
Also some research from Canada
Elevated lead exposure in American woodcock (Scolopax minor) in Eastern Canada
Elevated lead exposure in American woodcock (Scolopax minor) in Eastern Canada - PubMed
Lead and stable lead isotope ratios in soil, earthworms, and bones of American woodcock (Scolopax minor) from eastern Canada
Lead and stable lead isotope ratios in soil, earthworms, and bones of American woodcock (Scolopax minor) from eastern Canada - PubMed
Effects of Nontoxic Shot Regulations on Lead Accumulation in Ducks and American Woodcock in Canada
Effects of Nontoxic Shot Regulations on Lead Accumulation in Ducks and American Woodcock in Canada - Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology
Exposure, Effects and Absorption of Lead in American Woodcock (Scolopax minor): A Review
Exposure, Effects and Absorption of Lead in American Woodcock (Scolopax minor): A Review - PubMed
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
When I need advice on any house sales you'll be the first port of call....now...
Brad93
Well-Known Member
With rifle shot game, you've got potentially the lowest possible chance of ingesting any lead.
Rabbit = 99% of the time if you're eating them they're headshot.
Venison = The carcass has been prepared in very short time between shooting the beast and processing the meat - so there should not be any leeching of lead into the meat.
As with any rifle calibre that is legal, you're highly unlikely to miss any lead even if the projectile has fragmented due to the size.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
No, there has not been a vote on this from the members. BASC members elect the BASC Council members and it is Council that is responsible for running BASC. If any BASC member has a concern or query with BASC decisions, whether its on lead ammunition policy, expenditure related, or anything else, they can contact BASC in myriad ways including via me on conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and there is also the BASC AGM and members can instigate EGMs. Its all detailed in the BASC constitution available on the BASC website.Right. Here we are.
EAT WILD LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
EAT WILD LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activityfind-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
View attachment 411115
Lord! £ 1/4 Million. Interest free.
And has BASC had to, itself borrow that money and if so pay interest on it?
And was there ever a vote from the general membership about this money?
And as many name changes, so far, as Farage's UKIP!
So, this is not news to you, so why do you persist with this concept of members voting on decisions taken by BASC Council? Especially when you are not a BASC member but if I recall correctly a CPSA member? Why do we not hear from you on CPSA matters? What is the reason for this longstanding axe you have to grind?
The 2020 Policy Statement on lead shot.
£250,000 interest free loan to what is now styled as Eat Wild.
The removal of members' insurance against FAC/SGC revocation or refusal to renew.
You have answered you own question. I do not believe myself on my own in holding that opinion.
Your organisation has sold out the shooting practices of many in order to protect big bag commercial enterprises.
Based not on a balloted democratic decision of its one hundred and fifty thousand members but on the whim of twelve people.
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Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
As a CPSA member, you disagree with how BASC makes decisions, so what are you going to do about this other than moaning ad nauseum on here?
Why do we not hear from you on CPSA matters? We are waiting since December 2024 to hear from you on the HSE recommendations.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
You are not
It can fragment into really small particles you can't see. And they travel a surprising distance. As non lead are just as effective, it's an easy transition
I saw some footage and X-rays of how far even head shot lead particles make it in deer.
Some people are so stuck in their ways and refuse to budge it blows my mind,the chances are if you want to shoot deer you are going to have to use Non lead and most likely copper.
It works , you may need some changes in practice , but it works.
or ploughed into the ground if over arable ground. However that would not stop it entering the food we humans eat, but I have yet to find a good recipe for clay pigeons.
And mine!
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Maybe just maybe it's because there is no link to health issues from shot game shot with lead despite all the hypothesis.
If you wish to think as you do, please don't get in a car today, they not only possibly can but do in fact kill people!
That blows my mind
Would you rather ingest lead or copper , albeit in minute quantities.Maybe just maybe it's because there is no link to health issues from shot game shot with lead despite all the hypothesis.
If you wish to think as you do, please don't get in a car today, they not only possibly can but do in fact kill people!
That blows my mind
Personally I’d rather none, but seeing as how copper is used in some health products I know what I’d pick the risk of eating,which is greatly reduced using solid copper bullets.
I’ve heard of lead poisoning cases , steeplejacks and such have to get blood Levels checked for poisoning levels every few months.
Mind blown , yet again.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I'd prefer lead passing through my gut to a harder shard of copper. Copper is also potentially toxic in the body.
Steeple jacks are not eating lead in shot game. They are handling oxides of lead possibly. More toxic than clean metallic lead.
Mind blown again as well.
Stay out of your car!
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
This is what BASC submitted to the HSE in response to its final consultation in 2023.
One of the reasons for the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting announced by the shooting organisations in February 2020 was to address any uncertainty around the human consumption of game meat. The hazards of lead to humans are well researched. However, there is still a lack of evidence that confirms the source of lead.
Whilst there is no evidence of lead shot ingestion having a negative impact on human health, there is a secondary exposure pathway from the consumption of game meat containing lead derived from ammunition. The Food Standards Agency advises that "anyone who eats lead shot game should be aware of the risks posed by consuming large amounts of lead, especially children and pregnant women".
The HSE was not able to identify information on the quantities of non-bird game hunted with shot that is consumed in GB amongst either hunters and their families or the general population. Likewise, there was no information on the consumption of game species hunted with shot versus other ammunition, e.g., lead bullets.
As discussed in the HSE Annex 15 opinion document “large game” such as deer do not pose the same elevated levels of lead relative to small game and the risk of lead ingestion is negligible to humans where good game handling practices are followed.
BASC believes that restrictions are not required for shooting live quarry with bullets because the evidence supporting secondary exposure to humans and secondary exposure to wildlife supplied by the HSE is inconclusive. Any restrictions would be deemed unnecessary and disproportionate.
One of the reasons for the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting announced by the shooting organisations in February 2020 was to address any uncertainty around the human consumption of game meat. The hazards of lead to humans are well researched. However, there is still a lack of evidence that confirms the source of lead.
Whilst there is no evidence of lead shot ingestion having a negative impact on human health, there is a secondary exposure pathway from the consumption of game meat containing lead derived from ammunition. The Food Standards Agency advises that "anyone who eats lead shot game should be aware of the risks posed by consuming large amounts of lead, especially children and pregnant women".
The HSE was not able to identify information on the quantities of non-bird game hunted with shot that is consumed in GB amongst either hunters and their families or the general population. Likewise, there was no information on the consumption of game species hunted with shot versus other ammunition, e.g., lead bullets.
As discussed in the HSE Annex 15 opinion document “large game” such as deer do not pose the same elevated levels of lead relative to small game and the risk of lead ingestion is negligible to humans where good game handling practices are followed.
BASC believes that restrictions are not required for shooting live quarry with bullets because the evidence supporting secondary exposure to humans and secondary exposure to wildlife supplied by the HSE is inconclusive. Any restrictions would be deemed unnecessary and disproportionate.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of studies looking at consumption lead shot game and health problems in populations such as Native Americans.
There are also studies carried out showing the bioavailability of lead from consumption of lead shot venison in pigs - which a widely used surrogate for humans in medical studies.
The principal reason there is no data on lead shot game and British hunters is because nobody has looked. It would be a simple enough study to do. The NHS has a flag on every Shotgun and Firearms owner and you could easily look at disease prevalence against the wider population.
There were plenty of studies looking at lead exposure by soldiers and ammunition workers as far back as the turn of the last century. These were quietly put to one side so as not to disturb the war effort.
And every box of ammunition, whether its rifle or shotgun has warnings about lead exposure. Boxes of cigarettes have similar warnings. Whilst cigarettes are not banned, there is a ban on smoking anywhere where your smoke can affect others in a public place.
so from google
Globally, tobacco use causes the death of over 8 million people each year, with more than 7 million deaths resulting from direct tobacco use and around 1.2 million from exposure to secondhand smoke. That translates to roughly 22,000 deaths per day
From lead by eating game
roughly 0
yet HSE chooses lead ammunition to ban.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
the Tobacco industry would have claimed the same. Indeed they claimed that smoking was beneficial.
You should really ask the question about how many BASC members are dying or suffering from any of the conditions associated with lead exposure and compare this to the general population.
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