If firearms licensing was to be reformed what should it look like?

[Selous]

The current guidance already bands cartridges according to quarry in terms of providing good reason.

Ammunition limits are also already stated in the guidance according to use with additional allowance suggested for reloaders.

Personally, for me the system as we have it works absolutely fine, one for ones are straight forward. Adding firearms provided I satisfy good reason is never an issue, with all my variations always completed in a week or in minutes if I email for an appointment then go to HQ, as they do it while I wait.

If Wiltshire can apply the rules sensibly, pragmatically with very good timescales then there is no reason the current rules can’t work flawlessly elsewhere, other than the actual department administering them.

Moderators coming off ticket would be a sensible thing but other than that I wouldn’t want to see any changes at all, as my suspicion is any changes whatsoever would result in further restrictions being imposed.

That’s good to hear. With all of these processes that have to be followed, do you think they directly transpose to a benefit to public safety?

 

[Bo Diddley]

Back in the real word .... The Governments will carry on chipping away at all firearms till there is none left . deer etc will likely be killed is some horrible way , like poisons and things like mixy in Rabbits was developed sp

deer etc will likely be killed is some horrible way , like poisons and things like mixy in Rabbits was developed specifically for .

ecifically for .

Nothing would surprise me.. watching the news on the goggle box it seems like they run a story about how tasty "Lab" produced "Meat" is every week... softening up folks for the change-over...

 

[25 Sharps]

That’s good to hear. With all of these processes that have to be followed, do you think they directly transpose to a benefit to public safety?

If they are followed correctly, by and large, yes.

I personally think the system we have balances protection of the public with not being too restrictive for the shooter.

I am aware I am in Wiltshire but I currently have 19 section 1 firearms on my certificate, with 3 additional slots to fill (excluding moderators) plus somewhere north of 10,000 rounds authorised, mostly CF - so my view is the current rules are not too restrictive.

 

[bobo]

Before reading this please be advised: I don’t have anything against motorcycles . And in my humble opinion it is OK to have a control system for persons who wants to buy a firearm.


Here in Denmark there is about 166.000 registered motorcycles, costing 150-175 death and around 3000 injured a year. Thats a lot of dead and injured pesons because of a single type of machinery.


We have 175.000 hunters armed with at least a shotgun, but most will own several firearms. Then 170.000 sports shooters armed with at least 1 shotgun, rifle or pistol/revolver, most will own several of firearms.
Our police carry firearms, our home guard keep their military weapons and ammo at home, and finally many rescue trucks (at least in rural areas) carry rifles for humane dispatch of burned live stock.
We have large numbers of unregistered firearms from ww2, as many where dropped over Denmark and even more where left when the Germans when home.
Finally, there is a number og illegal modern firearms in the criminal world. When seeing the pictures the press shows from confiscated firearms, they are modern.
All these firearms result in 80-100 registered episodes of illegal use or accidents involving firearms a year, don’t know how many deaths.


However anyone who wants to buy a firearm, will have to get a firearm certificate, and will lose it if there is any doubt about the person’s ability to handle firearms safely.


Anyone who wants to buy a motorcycle can do so freely, no limit on age or criminal record. However, the driver license who give permission to drive the motorcycle on public road can be taken away and the cycle confiscated. However, the wild driver can freely buy a new motorcycle as he does not require a drivers license to buy it.


How comes a machine that is statistically so much more dangerous than a firearm can be bought freely?
If it is because a person can easier go for intended killing of another person when using a firearm, then I could go on and ask about things like axes and chainsaws.

 

[Jagare]

We have joined up thinking and computer system. Card type firearms licence. Individual licence for each weapon. Pass the hunting exam and that entitles you to get a firearm with that licence for life.
Pistol, join a club, six months probation, ect before you can buy a pistol, five years renewal.
Doctors have a duty to report health condition that may affect safe ownership of a firearm.
Violence, and drink driving will see your fac gone. I'm sure there are other offences that would affect gun ownership as well.
Self loading rifles are still allowed but not of the AR variety. The firearms system works reasonably well here even if the system does have its odd quirks.

 

[Bowland blades]

All these hopes and dreams about improving the system for shooting people and to cut out much of the silly stuff . Never going to happen though! Nope far from it it will simply get more complicated and worse for licences holders, without making any useful impact . If you haven't noticed just yet that's what the government does along with ramping up costs- fuelling inflation . if government was a company the stupidity and waste would disappear in a flash and to the very minimum. Give a government department a bigger budget and you can bet your house on the fact they will spend it all ( even over spend or beg for more from the taxpayer) without ever achieving much at all!
The Government ( especially the current mob of rag tags and muffin heads imho) really think that running up costs can only be better. and really think that more restrictions will fix things !
What we are going to get here is nothing that will be better for public safety ( licenced owners are already proven to be some the most trustworthy citizens in the UK ) Lets face it we are monitored and transgress the rules and your firearms will be gone in a flash !
Instead of harping on about legally held firearms , why don't we spend all the efforts proposed into the illegal drug trade ? The rise in illegal firearms and their use ( guns that are brought in with the drugs ) . It creates so much misery and spin off crime from the users ? The rise in gun and knife crime at present comes directly from the trade in Illegal drugs and the requirement to protect territory and cash . Putting extra money into policing this will do the most to stem shootings and crime spin off from the desperate users etc.
Ten year( or more ) licencing was passed over in my opinion because done properly it would work and the money saved and of course that budget would then be cut , but its like rats get rid and you will generally get a new lot in .
All Doctors Surgeries have the " Gun owner " mark on your medical details in case risks pop up in future regards medical issues, PNC search will reveal to the police what firearms a person has. so i personally think the reasons for knocking it back are actually about " because we can " But its Government money is OUR MONEY , please remember though that Government actually has no money- they only spend ours ! Its far too easy to spend free money via waste

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I think the new system will be similar to what Germany had in the 1940's, and enforced in a similar fashion

In Germany until 1970ish rifles were not even registered with stuff being bought off the catalogues like Otto similar to the Freemans one in the UK.
I agree the pistol ban is flawed law but it will never be repealed as that would show the public that politicians had made a mistake.

 

[Reddish]

If stringent licensing laws reduced crime and enhanced public safety, then the UK would be the safest country in Europe,and Switzerland probably the most dangerous.However,that is clearly not the case.So that simple reality would be a good place to start when considering new legislation.

 

[Bill.Stickers]

We shooters are a tiny minority with little political capital so I'm not sure I'd welcome any changes as it's highly likely that more restrictions would be applied not less (or better).

 

[Navarone]

Make it all digital.

Do the German system-exams and you must demonstrate a certain level of skill and knowledge which takes real commitment to achieve. From there you have no limit or quite a large limit on number or firearms or calibres. Get rid of the absurd target/quarry conditions and land sign off and all that and closed tickets, if you’ve demonstrated your commitment skill and knowledge and been granted FAC and have the landowners permission and you believe a 470nitro express is required to shoot muntjacs then so be it (clearly this would not be the case with proper training and level of attainment).

Centralise it all as well and make whatever body it is apply the actual guidelines as written.

No ammo limits, mods off ticket.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The German system is IMO very harsh but it makes you very committed to get through the exams at the end due to the high cost of doing the course, I failed my written exam and redid the course so I paid out double back in 1998 2,500dm twice.
Afterwards if you passed you cannot take on a lease/permission for three years as it is assumed you will need three years to get practical training from local hunters when they ask/invite you to help them out.
For those in the big cities this does not really work as they generally have no connection to the land and the Jagdschein is at the moment a very in vouge thing to do. So it is not perfect but better than what is done in the UK IMO, but I would say that wouldn't I?

 

[oldhamstocks]

I think (2 years in, Police Scotland) the system is very robust from my experience. To the extent I now tolerate speed limiter chimes in my new car to ensure I minimise the chances of transgressing the law as a FAC holder! It could be better - across the UK the system could be ‘nationalised’ as per Police Scotland. Possibly Wales, NI, North of the Humber, Mercia, Wessex, London and Anglia (rest of SE). That’s a bit back of a fag packet but you get the drift. Also the BASC support for licensing officers is great and should be ongoing. Consistency and flexibility. I also think FAC holders should be digitally scrutinised in the same way that applicants for most professions are, in order to identify intemperate behaviour and extreme opinions on social media/digital footprint. The FAC should be like a driving licence card and scannable by RFDs etc with electronic information of conditions, weapons and ammunition allowance.

 

[Navarone]

The German system is IMO very harsh but it makes you very committed to get through the exams at the end due to the high cost of doing the course, I failed my written exam and redid the course so I paid out double back in 1998 2,500dm twice.
Afterwards if you passed you cannot take on a lease/permission for three years as it is assumed you will need three years to get practical training from local hunters when they ask/invite you to help them out.
For those in the big cities this does not really work as they generally have no connection to the land and the Jagdschein is at the moment a very in vouge thing to do. So it is not perfect but better than what is done in the UK IMO, but I would say that wouldn't I?

My thoughts above are based on the fact that really it seems to be the way it’s going here. Ever tighter control on firearms ownership and essentially a drive to really remove as many firearms as possible from people. As a result of this I think we as a community should get on the front foot, present ourselves as the responsible serious people we are and say to the public we are highly trained serious people and are very determined about what we do. By doing this it should come with the flip side of if you have gone down the path and committed once you are certified it should be much easier to have multiple firearms and all the ridiculousness of U.K. policy should be done away with, darkness and light…

 

[weblyish]

Make it all digital.

Do the German system-exams and you must demonstrate a certain level of skill and knowledge which takes real commitment to achieve. From there you have no limit or quite a large limit on number or firearms or calibres. Get rid of the absurd target/quarry conditions and land sign off and all that and closed tickets, if you’ve demonstrated your commitment skill and knowledge and been granted FAC and have the landowners permission and you believe a 470nitro express is required to shoot muntjacs then so be it (clearly this would not be the case with proper training and level of attainment).

Centralise it all as well and make whatever body it is apply the actual guidelines as written.

No ammo limits, mods off ticket.

Is there one single logical reason for the calibre nonsense. You have permission for a 6.5mm so obviously we need to reassess if you want a .270


It sounds like something reasonable if you've never been near a gun or have no idea how it works

But that is the no.1 thing to go

A slot type of Permission for e.g. 1 centre fire for good reason e.g. deer

Decide to Sell it and buy a different one then just inform the police like a shotgun

Would save a huge amount of admin and zero safety implications

 

[Foxyboy43]

Dead easy - transfer responsibility to the Passport Service which already has regional offices across the UK and is already well versed in checking individuals. The sainted lady FB (who knows these things from the inside) assures me that it could absorb this comparatively small business function without breaking stride.
Simples.

 

[Navarone]

Is there one single logical reason for the calibre nonsense. You have permission for a 6.5mm so obviously we need to reassess if you want a .270


It sounds like something reasonable if you've never been near a gun or have no idea how it works

But that is the no.1 thing to go

A slot type of Permission for e.g. 1 centre fire for good reason e.g. deer

Decide to Sell it and buy a different one then just inform the police like a shotgun

Would save a huge amount of admin and zero safety implications

I’ve no idea where it came from originally it’s absurd isn’t it. Of course I can totally see why you might separate out rim fire and centre fire but once you get into cf what on earth difference does it really make between them all in terms of how dangerous they are. As you say and people have said above a set of calibre groupings such as deer 243/6.5/270/275/308 etc etc, fox 222/223/22-250 and then you have good reason for a certain amount of that type of rifle and go and buy whatever you like and sell it if you like and buy a different one.

 

[User00057]

This thread is like a, What if I won’t the lottery thread .

 

[25 Sharps]

Make it all digital.

Do the German system-exams and you must demonstrate a certain level of skill and knowledge which takes real commitment to achieve. From there you have no limit or quite a large limit on number or firearms or calibres. Get rid of the absurd target/quarry conditions and land sign off and all that and closed tickets, if you’ve demonstrated your commitment skill and knowledge and been granted FAC and have the landowners permission and you believe a 470nitro express is required to shoot muntjacs then so be it (clearly this would not be the case with proper training and level of attainment).

Centralise it all as well and make whatever body it is apply the actual guidelines as written.

No ammo limits, mods off ticket.

Put more barriers in the way of getting into the sport and you’ll get less entrants, which will be hugely damaging

 

[Selous]

I’ve no idea where it came from originally it’s absurd isn’t it. Of course I can totally see why you might separate out rim fire and centre fire but once you get into cf what on earth difference does it really make between them all in terms of how dangerous they are. As you say and people have said above a set of calibre groupings such as deer 243/6.5/270/275/308 etc etc, fox 222/223/22-250 and then you have good reason for a certain amount of that type of rifle and go and buy whatever you like and sell it if you like and buy a different one.

Totally agree with you. The calibre groupings are there already in common use in the Home Office Guidance so this is not a leap at all. The only change needed would be the ability to buy and sell without having to go cap in hand to the firearms department like little Oliver Twist!

 

[Dickie]

This thread is like a, What if I won’t the lottery thread .

More like more chance of winning the lottery