Doors For Gun Room

[Jamoy1993]

Hello folks, i have been brainstorming on how to put a gun room / cupboard in my house.

Basically i have a suitable cupboard that is brick on all 4 sides with a door. The plan is to clad the ceiling and floor with Expanded mesh to the security manual specification sent by my FLD.





The thing that is bothering me is selecting a suitable door that will allow me to use the room as a walk in gun cupboard rather than having to buy new gun cabinets ever 3 - 5 guns which is actually more expensive than getting a decent door (or so i think) I am not entirely sure which section these specific doos i have been looking at would be in regards.. Here are a few doors i think would be suitable, would they be adequate?

Highest Security Steel Door & Frame | Latham's Steel Doors

Our highest security anti-vandal door & frame held in stock. The Ultra Door features our strongest multi point combat lock system. Next day delivery available.

www.lathamssteeldoors.co.uk

PAS 24 Rated Door - Secured By Design | Latham's Steel Doors

PAS 24 Rated steel doors available in a range of stock sizes for next day delivery. Secured By Design (SBD) enhanced security standard certified.

www.lathamssteeldoors.co.uk

In the manual, it mentions LPS 1175 SR4 doors, but they are eye-wateringly expensive. They should be adequate as my gun cabinets are of equal or less thick steel with a similar locking mechanism.

Has anyone got any experience with this? I have attached the full PDF also. Page 35 is where the gun room guidelines are outlined.

 

[enfieldspares]

When I had my RFD I had two bespoke made cabinets (like a mirror image of each other...one hinged on the left the other hinged on the right) that fitted into a similar space. It was a four foot wide space with a three foot door. So each cabinet external width was just a tad under two feet.

By having two it meant that BOTH would fit through the "door" to that space as single units. But then each were bolted to the back wall to form, if you like, a four foot wide gun keeping space made from two separate cabinets bolted side by side.

Between that wall and then at each "level" where the sets of bolts passed is continuous flat steel bar through which those bolts pass.

This two cabinet fitting side by side meant that the "door" to the space didn't in itself have to meet the benchmarks as above and could just be a suitable stout wooden door. Nor did the brickwork other than being suitable to bolt the cabinets to.

 

[nf-fuse]

I've dealt with Latham's before. I find them helpful. Can't really help you on the specs side of it.

 

[Jamoy1993]

When I had my RFD I had two bespoke made cabinets (like a mirror image of each other...one hinged on the left the other hinged on the right) that fitted into a similar space. By having two it meant that BOTH would fit through the "door" to that space and then each were bolted to the back wall and between that wall and then at each "level" where the sets of bolts passed a continuous flat steel bar through which those bolts passed. This meant that the "door" to the space didn't in itself have to meet the benchmarks as above and could just be a suitable stout wooden door.

Thats what confuses me, that door i linked is way better than a "solid core wooden door", it just doesn't make sense does it?

a) a solid core timber barricade or laminated security door of not less than 44mm thickness;

I would take a 1.8mm x 2 steel sandwich over a wooden door any day of the week

Basically what i want is for my guns to be on a gun rack inside this room. Sect 2 Shotguns etc and My War Rifle Collections etc And i will keep my cabinet for my more expensive items.

 

[enfieldspares]

I will draw a very very rough sketch.

 

[nf-fuse]

Thats what confuses me, that door i linked is way better than a "solid core wooden door", it just doesn't make sense does it?

a) a solid core timber barricade or laminated security door of not less than 44mm thickness;

I would take a 1.8mm x 2 steel sandwich over a wooden door any day of the week

Basically what i want is for my guns to be on a gun rack inside this room. Sect 2 Shotguns etc and My War Rifle Collections etc And i will keep my cabinet for my more expensive items.

I would say modern cordless power tools can easily break in to most gun rooms and safest.

 

[enfieldspares]

The red is the brickwork of the room. The blue are doors. One to the room and the other to that inside blind all brick "cupboard". The open gap at the front (lowermost in the plan) wall is a window. The two green squares are the two identical (mirror image) gun cabinets. One hinged on the left and one hinged on the right. So actually two separate cabinets. But each at two feet wide fit through the three foot doorway to that blind cupboard so they can be manhandled into final position. I hope it helps!

Note well that in order to be able to be manhandled in the cabinets from front to back must be under half the front to back of the brick cupboard. So one goes in and is slid across to the right and fixed. The the other goes on and is slid across to the left and fixed. This also means that the doors open fully...one opening to the left the other to the right.

In real life the space in front has a wooden curtain pole from left to right just above the top of the cabinets. From that I use "S" shape hooks like meat hooks of old to hang three cartridge bags and some gunslips. The space on top of the cabinets I use for gun cases of the flat "motor case" type.

 

[enfieldspares]

This smaller section shows the doors of the cabinets in light green and how they can open fully out. They were made by Leicester Sheet Metal who were metal fabricators to the specification (thickeness, hinges, weldments, re-bends and etc) as per the Home Office guidance booklet the OP mentions. In fact I went 1mm thicker gauge metal than the guidance. Bespoke made means that you can!

 

[moeggesit]

Hello folks, i have been brainstorming on how to put a gun room / cupboard in my house.

Basically i have a suitable cupboard that is brick on all 4 sides with a door. The plan is to clad the ceiling and floor with Expanded mesh to the security manual specification sent by my FLD.

View attachment 422384

View attachment 422385

The thing that is bothering me is selecting a suitable door that will allow me to use the room as a walk in gun cupboard rather than having to buy new gun cabinets ever 3 - 5 guns which is actually more expensive than getting a decent door (or so i think) I am not entirely sure which section these specific doos i have been looking at would be in regards.. Here are a few doors i think would be suitable, would they be adequate?

Highest Security Steel Door & Frame | Latham's Steel Doors

Our highest security anti-vandal door & frame held in stock. The Ultra Door features our strongest multi point combat lock system. Next day delivery available.

www.lathamssteeldoors.co.uk

PAS 24 Rated Door - Secured By Design | Latham's Steel Doors

PAS 24 Rated steel doors available in a range of stock sizes for next day delivery. Secured By Design (SBD) enhanced security standard certified.

www.lathamssteeldoors.co.uk

In the manual, it mentions LPS 1175 SR4 doors, but they are eye-wateringly expensive. They should be adequate as my gun cabinets are of equal or less thick steel with a similar locking mechanism.

Has anyone got any experience with this? I have attached the full PDF also. Page 35 is where the gun room guidelines are outlined.

Look up “gun enclosure” rather than gun room, which is a better fit for your cupboard.

 

[Pedro]

The red is the brickwork of the room. The blue are doors. One to the room and the other to that inside blind all brick "cupboard". The open gap at the front (lowermost in the plan) wall is a window. The two green squares are the two identical (mirror image) gun cabinets. One hinged on the left and one hinged on the right. So actually two separate cabinets. But each at two feet wide fit through the three foot doorway to that blind cupboard so they can be manhandled into final position. I hope it helps!

Note well that in order to be able to be manhandled in the cabinets from front to back must be under half the front to back of the brick cupboard. So one goes in and is slid across to the right and fixed. The the other goes on and is slid across to the left and fixed. This also means that the doors open fully...one opening to the left the other to the right.

In real life the space in front has a wooden curtain pole from left to right just above the top of the cabinets. From that I use "S" shape hooks like meat hooks of old to hang three cartridge bags and some gunslips. The space on top of the cabinets I use for gun cases of the flat "motor case" type.

View attachment 422388

I suspect that this would be a lot cheaper than making the whole room into a gun room and with very little in the way of disadvantages. Effectively, I think the only difference would be that you'd have to put all your guns away in the two cabinets when leaving the room.

 

[John Gryphon]

A shipping container door

 

[Jamoy1993]

Thanks folks, what i think i need is what a few of you say is an enclosure more than a room even though its what it basically is. A brick room with a heavy door on it.

 

[angusb1]

I am in a similar situation, I have a cupboard in my house which is made of dense concrete block which is a load bearing structure supporting roof trusses. It is 3' deep and 5' wide so the section of the regulations which apply to it is the part about gun enclosures rather than gun rooms:

Gun Enclosure
23. The adaptation of an existing enclosure within the fabric of a building which may be considered to be
suitable for the security of the firearms, shotguns and ammunition where:
a) the enclosure is not to be formed by any walls being of timber and/or plasterboard construction
(studded wall) unless the area has been rendered secure to standards similar to the
recommendations in paragraph 29 below;
b) the door fitted is constructed either as:
i) a security class, laminated or solid timber core door of not less than 44mm thickness; or
or
ii) a timber door lined with sheet steel not less than 16swg, the sheet to be folded round the
locking edge of the door and secured to the door structure with non-return screws or dome
head bolts if externally lined, or steel screws if internally lined. The fixings to be not more than
125mm apart.
24. Hung on good quality hinges. A minimum of two in the case of half height and three if a full height door
is fitted.
25. If the door is outward opening, hinge bolts must be fitted sufficient to retain the door in the event of an
attack on the exposed hinge pins.
26. To be secured by:
a) two mortice locks to at least BS3621 – 2017 or its equivalent;
b) two lock’s from the HELA Tech doc 26/5;
c) driven bolt/multi point locking system, either key or lever operated, providing:
i) three bolts operating equally along the opening edge or opening edge, top and bottom;
ii) the bolts to provide resistance equal to that in BS3621-2017;
iii) lever driven system to be secured by a lock to BS3621-2017
27. Long plate lock boxes, or a 1.6mm (16swg) thick bolt protection strip to be fitted to the frame on the
opening side.
28. If the ceiling of the enclosure is accessible from a vulnerable area, e.g. a loft, its security should be
enhanced by the fitting of an expanded metal mesh, not less than 4mm (8swg) or equivalent. The mesh/grill
section size to prevent any of the contents being removed. Secured to the walls of the enclosure or if an
alarm is fitted, protected by a device for detecting an attack on the mesh.

I didn't see anything saying I needed to have expanded steel mesh on the floor as well as the ceiling so I just planned to do the ceiling. The wooden floor is a lot more sturdy than plasterboard so it would make sense if that was ok.

I didn't see anything on the Lathams doors about hinge bolts, and I wondered if that was because the multipoint locking system also extends out of the hinge side. I plan to ask Lathams about this.

From the wording about door requirements

"i) a security class, laminated or solid timber core door of not less than 44mm thickness; or
or
ii) a timber door lined with sheet steel not less than 16swg,"

This to me means that any of the Lathams security doors would comply. I was going to get a panelled one as it would be similar to the other internal doors in our house, but I think the budget security door would be fine, possibly with an upgraded cylinder.

 

[Trickyd66]

And i will keep my cabinet for my more expensive items
[/QUOTE]

You might want to not say that to the FEO?

 

[VSS]

You might not want to say that to the FEO?

Why not?

 

[Trickyd66]

Why not?

I would have thought that the FLO would want all firearms secured to the same security level , regardless of inherent value. By suggesting that the more valuable are somehow worthy of additional security seems odd.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have done plenty spread from when we had to have shotguns in a safe . My last was 2-3 years ago perhaps , The specification given i have never seen so assume the FEO phoned Lathams ? who maybe have perhaps told them what they do ? There is a home office booklet but it wasn't ever very specific , it could be worthwhile seeing if you could get access to what is mentioned and not mentioned .

 

[VSS]

I would have thought that the FLO would want all firearms secured to the same security level , regardless of inherent value. By suggesting that the more valuable are somehow worthy of additional security seems odd.

But surely, if the whole room is up to the required security specification, then how you choose store them within that room is entirely up to you? If you wish to add an additional level of security for certain items over and above the basic requirements the FEO is hardly going to object to that, is he?

 

[01goatboy]

I have used Lathems for a door on my house, the service was excellent and the door was seriously solid.

I went for the panelled one with upgraded locks. £399

Even if you went for the heavy duty door opening out, it would be imposable to kick in and vastly more secure than any can cabinet.

 

[Scuffy]

One more for Lathams.
Have had them passed by FEOs