EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[Conor O'Gorman]

The GWCT supports the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting, and their review of the evidence underpinned that transition, which continues to be encouraged by BASC, CA, NGO and others, and the sporting press. The GWCT’s shoot at Loddington is lead free and that has been positively received by visiting Guns. Here is an update from GWCT last year - have a look at the article and the comments below it.

Phasing Out Lead; where are we? - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

BASC's latest update on the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is here:

Leadership, rather than compliance

Explore the transition to lead-free shotgun cartridges and the impact on shooting sports for greater environmental responsibility.

www.shootinguk.co.uk

The next stage of review of the EC draft regulations is this autumn in the EU REACH committee and here in the UK we await a government response to the HSE recommendations under the post-Brexit UK REACH process.

BASC's position on the HSE recommendations is here:

HSE recommendations on lead restriction proposals explained

Read our explanation of the HSE's proposals on restrictions for lead ammunition in more detail, plus BASC's position on each.

basc.org.uk

 

[jimmer.13]

You equally are free to leave the BASC, GWCT etc etc.

There is plenty of very good evidence that lead is harmful. It has been known so for a very long time. There is plenty of very good evidence, some of which I have posted.

There is plenty of lead in our foodstuffs - notably cereal grains. Lead occurs freely in nature in certain places. These are in the Western upland parts of the UK where they used to mine lead - cornwall, wales, cumbria, scottish highlands. Lead doesn’t occur naturally on our main agricultural areas. Lead in our food is due to man made pollution. Shooting is the last major contributor.

You may or may believe the science. You may or may not believe the earth is flat. You may take the view that lead does no harm, that there is no evidence that it does etc. I consider these to be totally ill founded claims.

Thankfully there are plenty who do understand the dangers of lead. Indeed shooting is one of the few sectors which still freely uses lead. In all other places lead has been replaced.

I think BASC and other shooting organisations have done a good job in getting this debate going, getting the industry to develop alternatives so that when lead is out lawed we can carry on as before.

Suddenly erudite in all matters pertaining to lead…. Who’d of thought….. jog on chap no one is convinced.
You do your thing and be happy but please stop trying to fcuk the job up for everyone else.
There’s a good fellow

 

[Heym SR20]

Suddenly erudite in all matters pertaining to lead…. Who’d of thought….. jog on chap no one is convinced.
You do your thing and be happy but please stop trying to fcuk the job up for everyone else.
There’s a good fellow

I wouldn’t expect any less of an answer from the likes of yourself. I am not fcuking anything up. You are doing that perfectly for yourself with your belligerent attitude.

 

[timbrayford]

Unfortunately that has always been the case and while acceptable as an opinion from a fellow forum member is unacceptable by an employee of one of our shooting organisations when speaking on their behalf.

Precisely!

 

[timbrayford]

You equally are free to leave the BASC, GWCT etc etc.

There is plenty of very good evidence that lead is harmful. It has been known so for a very long time. There is plenty of very good evidence, some of which I have posted.

There is plenty of lead in our foodstuffs - notably cereal grains. Lead occurs freely in nature in certain places. These are in the Western upland parts of the UK where they used to mine lead - cornwall, wales, cumbria, scottish highlands. Lead doesn’t occur naturally on our main agricultural areas. Lead in our food is due to man made pollution. Shooting is the last major contributor.

You may or may believe the science. You may or may not believe the earth is flat. You may take the view that lead does no harm, that there is no evidence that it does etc. I consider these to be totally ill founded claims.

Thankfully there are plenty who do understand the dangers of lead. Indeed shooting is one of the few sectors which still freely uses lead. In all other places lead has been replaced.

I think BASC and other shooting organisations have done a good job in getting this debate going, getting the industry to develop alternatives so that when lead is out lawed we can carry on as before.

Alternatives at the moment appear to be short term stop gap measures with none of them being outstandingly superior to lead in all respects. That said as far as rifle projectiles are concerned I now use only Barnes but I don't see any good reason why my choices should be forced by law on everyone else.

 

[Chris Richardson]

I think BASC and other shooting organisations have done a good job in getting this debate going, getting the industry to develop alternatives so that when lead is out lawed we can carry on as before.

But they haven’t have they ? We’ve already established that basc didn’t consult with cartridge manufacturers

 

[Chris Richardson]

The GWCT supports the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting, and their review of the evidence underpinned that transition, which continues to be encouraged by BASC, CA, NGO and others, and the sporting press. The GWCT’s shoot at Loddington is lead free and that has been positively received by visiting Guns. Here is an update from GWCT last year - have a look at the article and the comments below it.

Phasing Out Lead; where are we? - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

BASC's latest update on the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is here:

Leadership, rather than compliance

Explore the transition to lead-free shotgun cartridges and the impact on shooting sports for greater environmental responsibility.

www.shootinguk.co.uk

The next stage of review of the EC draft regulations is this autumn in the EU REACH committee and here in the UK we await a government response to the HSE recommendations under the post-Brexit UK REACH process.

BASC's position on the HSE recommendations is here:

HSE recommendations on lead restriction proposals explained

Read our explanation of the HSE's proposals on restrictions for lead ammunition in more detail, plus BASC's position on each.

basc.org.uk

But again it’s not voluntary is it where was the consultation with shooting folk ? I’ve certainly not volunteered for it and nobody I know has basc members or otherwise

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

But they haven’t have they ? We’ve already established that basc didn’t consult with cartridge manufacturers

The cartridge manufacturers were consulted and this was established earlier in this thread. Perhaps you missed it?

BASC published the following update on 2 March 2020

BASC issues further statement on non-lead ammunition

I don't recall any further statements from cartridge manufacturers on this - and there has been an ongoing collaborative effort on the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting spanning manufacturers, estates, retailers, and thousands of shooters.

Leadership, rather than compliance

 

[Leec6.5]

I’ve got a simple solution to this problem!

Instead of winging about it and being members of and taking notice of pointless organisations. reading pointless jibberish on the internet etc

STOCK PILE.

Those who wish to shoot lead, buy as much ammunition and consumables as you can !!

Then sit back and laugh when hits the fan

Then carry on regardless

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

But again it’s not voluntary is it where was the consultation with shooting folk ? I’ve certainly not volunteered for it and nobody I know has basc members or otherwise

It is voluntary, its your choice if you wish to continue to use lead shot for live quarry shooting, and there has been over 5 years consultation with the shooting community, including on this forum.

 

[Liveonce]

I think BASC and other shooting organisations have done a good job in getting this debate going, getting the industry to develop alternatives so that when lead is out lawed we can carry on as before.

The only equivalent to a lead shot cartridge with fibre wads in steel are the jocker paper cups, but that looks difficult to carry on as before, still may be in five years time a few may be available with luck. Just need the wars to end, Nato to restock and the Chinese to make the shot.

 

[Liveonce]

I’ve got a simple solution to this problem!

Instead of winging about it and being members of and taking notice of pointless organisations. reading pointless jibberish on the internet etc

STOCK PILE.

Those who wish to shoot lead, buy as much ammunition and consumables as you can !!

Then sit back and laugh when hits the fan

Then carry on regardless

unfortunate if, when the lead ban becomes law it will be illegal to be in possession of lead shot cartridges and the lead police will be onto apparently.

 

[Leec6.5]

unfortunate if, when the lead ban becomes law it will be illegal to be in possession of lead shot cartridges and the lead police will be onto apparently.

How are they going to police it?

 

[Liveonce]

How are they going to police it?

don’t know, but best read back as @dunwater has many ideas and is happy we pay for the lead police.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Hardly a comfort to those who don’t shoot muzzle loaders and didn’t in any way vote for this “ voluntary “ transition from lead shot

The muzzle loading exemption is in the EC draft regs to restrict lead shot for live quarry shooting with shotguns in the EU (+NI) with a 3 year transition period. The voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting in the UK is not a legal requirement, it is voluntary, it is ongoing, and it is your choice if you wish to continue to use lead shot for your shooting activities, including muzzle-loading firearms.

 

[Dunwaters]

Supposing, for the sake of argument, it didn't cause a problem. Then there is no basis for a ban. That is the actuality, so far as science is able to determine reasonably.

Tendentious claim in large part.

Nonsense. They could quite easily have performed some scientific studies demonstrating population-level harm to UK species outside wetlands, if you premise is correct. No study to date has been able to do any such thing.

Oh Gawd, here we go again...
Lead shot and small particulate lead from high velocity rifle bullets, causes problems in wildlife populations, wherever the subject has come under study, the findings are consistent.
The only thing more consistent is the refusal of a segment of the shooting community to accept any of the studies, or all of the studies as being personally applicable.
Does this sound familiar?

What exactly is Tendentious about the claim?
I asked several times for the metrics used to measure success or failure of the voluntary transition, I got zip in return.
I still await a response or a statement from BASC updating us all on the progress of the transition, I’m also curious as to how much the process has cost so far.

Just because a study didn’t take place within the UK doesn’t invalidate the extrapolation of results to give likely conclusions affecting the UK. If anything, it makes the studies more relevant, because you have a higher human population density and proportionally higher densities of shooters concentrated in smaller areas than most of the rest of the planet.

By the bye, there have been numerous studies conducted within the UK by a multitude of bodies, researching the results of lead ingestion by wildlife, their findings are almost as consistent as your rejection of every single one of them.

 

[Dunwaters]

so you are happy for us or who ever to pay to police compliance after a total lead ban, yet this could have been done during the voluntary transition by engaging with game dealers and hence refusing to accept game shot with lead.
Wildfowling clubs generally look to have managed to police it, so why not game dealers?

Because it wasn’t mandatory, it isn’t mandatory for deer, but its getting there;

And so what if game shooting did not survive, it is for a few months of the year and does not keep the industry in business all year round. Turnover keeps businesses in business and the live quarry game shooting is a small part of that turnover for cartridge importers, manufactures, RFDs.

Define “ game shooting “ please. For me it’s a bit of a dander behind a decent dog with maybe a couple of pheasants, snipe or woodcock seen and fired at over the morning or afternoon. I wouldn’t fire half a slab in a season, but I’m out twice a week

BASC appears to prioritise game shooting above all other shooting, when in reality it’s a minority that participates in it.
They look to have their own agenda otherwise why are the minutes of their meeting regarding lead in confidence?

Maybe thats where the money is?
Shooting in the UK is very different to shooting here, or anywhere else I’ve been in Europe, unless it’s a driven day deliberately designed to imitate a British driven shoot.
If you’re talking about committee meetings, they’re normally confidential, always have been.

 

[Dunwaters]

As stated a major argument in the promotion of a lead free tomorrow is the presence of lead shot in game meat , did you not see the WWT advertisement in Private Eye regarding lead shot consumption , it is very much a major argument.

Thats PR, WWT are jumping on a band wagon, go back as far as you like, the main thrust of proposed lead restrictions has been based on damage to wildlife, perceived human impacts were peripheral until REACH got involved.

Unlike the scale of lead deposition that commercial shooting is responsible for the shot I broadcast annually is minimal and has neglible impact so negligible in fact that according to the the findings of GWCT there is no measurable impact ,hence my earlier comment regarding the need to address the issue by dealing with lead deposition where it is considered appropriate.

This is precisely the path that the EU dissenters to a ban are following, hopefully it will result in concessions.

Your post however does illustrate the deliberate altering of major to main in order to then state my post is untrue when in fact it is true that one of the main arguments has been the constant referral to how there is no safe level of lead consumption and for example how consumption is not advised for women who are pregnant or youngsters.
The deliberate misrepresentation of another’s post in the best interests of then being able to contradict it does little to further what should be a discussion to establish a proportionate response from shooters and their organisations to an issue that has been politicised and used against shooting sports best interests.

Sorry, but you’ve lost me here, I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Dunwaters]

It works in my ten bore and my 3 1/2 inch 12 but was never designed for use in my Damascus barrelled 12 or any of the classic British side by sides whose barrel profiles were perfected for the use of lead shot. Early reports in the US showed barrel bulging on much thicker barrelled old Browning A5s I reckon the silver soldered ribs and chamber and choke profiles of my classic guns are far less equipped to deal with the constant use of steel shot.

Your Damascus barrelled 12 bore probably has 2” or 2”1/2 chambers, modern guns have 23/4” as standard and have had for half a century.
Your gun is unsafe with modern ammunition, you have a specialty firearm which requires tailored ammunition or is a risk mto the user. You can easily load a 38Gm magnum round and fire it, it may not end well, you know what you’re doing and are happy with the hazard, a lot of us aren’t.

 

[Liveonce]

The muzzle loading exemption is in the EC draft regs to restrict lead shot for live quarry shooting with shotguns in the EU (+NI) with a 3 year transition period. The voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting in the UK is not a legal requirement, it is voluntary, it is ongoing, and it is your choice if you wish to continue to use lead shot for your shooting activities, including muzzle-loading firearms.

But they are pushing back for a ten year transition within the EC as you know.

It’s not the voluntary transition that’s the issue, it’s the likely legal ban to be announced by the government in the summer again as you know.