yep, but i think that is the case with not just those two, but a good few of the "old" classic european catridges, developed in that period. The 6.5x55 included, the 6.5x54 ms and maybe, the 7x64, the 8x57 and even the 6.5x57 too (although that one wasnt developed for military use). So some of the "oldies" might just find themselves well suited for the mono-era of hunting
yep, and going 20 or so down on grns for mono projectiles intended for the same quarry vs if it was a lead projectile, also, speed wise, bumps the 7x57 case capacity catridges up a class too, which suits the non fragmenting monos according to most users.
I sat out on Sunday night overlooking some organic potatoes that are getting hammered by the wild boar here where I hunt when in Niedersachsen . Alas , they did not show up that night. So, the new 7x57 barrel and it’s 140 gr non lead bullet pairing are yet to be tested out in the hunting fields.Plz let us know how that goes, Olaf.
as for @harrygrey382 plz keep the updates coming, and best of luck with completing this very cool project.
well to see a nice S&L always warms a danish heart 
And S and L do have a name for very good craftsmanship! So i'd assume that the barrel and action should make a good match indeed, and thus set a good foundation for success.
I agree they are very nice indeed. Sadly, it would appear the majority of UK sporting rifle enthusiasts have little interest in the aesthetics of scope mounting.I can confidently say these S&Ks are the nicest mounts I’ve both seen and handled - superb machining and finish and a fantastic design, both very strong and look very nice and sleek. I hate the look of 98% of the mounts out there, these tick all the boxes. I don’t think I’ll ever buy a different brand so long as they keep making them.
back then I didn’t have very much money, they were what I had and fitting the front mount the ‘right’ way round it didn’t fit as well, bringing the scope too close to my eye. I had those Apel mounts and they worked in that configuration, so I used what I had at my disposal and it worked fine so it’s stayed like that. Quite, I agree, from what I studied on the subject before purchasing the 7x57 barrel, it’s the somewhat more lightly built and older European born brother of the .30-06. It’s not a .30-06 and never will be . but, used in conjunction with certain bullet and powder combinations it’s a very nice chambering that, I hope will be a pleasure for me to learn to hunt well with.Hello Olaf
As for going from the 30-06 to the 7x57, what is it one of those famous old timer american gun writers once wrote ? It was something ala " that a 7x57 is pretty much ballistically akin to the 06, just with 20-25 grns ligther bullets". And, quite fortunately, that also entails the SD and BC , if the same bullet type is used in the two caliber sizes.
And this is not to mention the historical connection between the two, with the 06 allegedly being quite inspired by the 7x57. So if you were to switch from your 06, you seem to have "kept it in the family", so to speak
It’s an Interesting little read that : Forty Years with the Little 7mm article you linked. In it he says ………” Even when the charge is tightly compressed it is possible to get only about 53 grains of 4350 or 4831 powders into the Western 7×57 case”…… quite astonishing; I mean, I’ve read that ‘modern’ factory made cartridges are very mildly loaded to provide safe ammunition for shooters using very old potentially weaker built rifle Acton’s and barrels. My Lee loader manual and nosler manuals give a maximum load for 140 gr bullets of over a whooping 10 grains less nitro than that. Do you or anyone else , civilised enough to be following this exciting thread , have any published load data that states such high power loads ? Or, did the old school just fill up 7x57 cartridges to the brim , wipe off the top of the cartridge and then crunch a bullet down on top of it all and hope for the bestHello again Harry
And if the day comes where you, like us here in Denmark, have to all lead free with your hunting ammo, your twist rate should support that quite well too.
All of Harrys awesome build pictures of his work progression on his 7x57, and our talk about its potential, makes me think of this article that Jack O'Connor wrote on the "old little 7": Forty Years with the Little 7mm
Now he wrote that a good while back, obviously, before the development of the modern mono projectiles, but with its (cip) chamber dimensions and typical barrel twist rates the 7x57 might actually, even being 130 or so years old, be looking quite well suited for the immediate to mid term future too.
?Small manufactorers didn`t have access to pressure testing equipment and shooters didn`t have chronografs, it was in the 1990s cartridge manufactorers had to stop lying about speed (or sometimes they still doo).It’s an Interesting little read that : Forty Years with the Little 7mm article you linked. In it he says ………” Even when the charge is tightly compressed it is possible to get only about 53 grains of 4350 or 4831 powders into the Western 7×57 case”…… quite astonishing; I mean, I’ve read that ‘modern’ factory made cartridges are very mildly loaded to provide safe ammunition for shooters using very old potentially weaker built rifle Acton’s and barrels. My Lee loader manual and nosler manuals give a maximum load for 140 gr bullets of over a whooping 10 grains less nitro than that. Do you or anyone else , civilised enough to be following this exciting thread , have any published load data that states such high power loads ? Or, did the old school just fill up 7x57 cartridges to the brim , wipe off the top of the cartridge and then crunch a bullet down on top of it all and hope for the best
Kindest regards, Olaf
hello Olaf, and good spot!It’s an Interesting little read that : Forty Years with the Little 7mm article you linked. In it he says ………” Even when the charge is tightly compressed it is possible to get only about 53 grains of 4350 or 4831 powders into the Western 7×57 case”…… quite astonishing; I mean, I’ve read that ‘modern’ factory made cartridges are very mildly loaded to provide safe ammunition for shooters using very old potentially weaker built rifle Acton’s and barrels. My Lee loader manual and nosler manuals give a maximum load for 140 gr bullets of over a whooping 10 grains less nitro than that. Do you or anyone else , civilised enough to be following this exciting thread , have any published load data that states such high power loads ? Or, did the old school just fill up 7x57 cartridges to the brim , wipe off the top of the cartridge and then crunch a bullet down on top of it all and hope for the best
Kindest regards, Olaf
Nice reply, thanks for the link to another interesting thread too.hello Olaf, and good spot!
O-oh, i think we risk opening up a can of worms here, as the subject of to which pressures one can safely load one many of the classic old european cartridges if it is done for strong modern rifles and actions and with good brass etc has been discussed vigorously on here before. And i dont recall any consensus being reached.
I actually myself tried to create a single thread to collect the ideas and opinions on the matter here: Pressure limits in older european calibers, - do they make sense with modern actions and brass?? But even then i dont think a final conclusion that most could agree upon was reached.
And bringing it all back home to this very thread, didnt @harrygrey382 state that he might load his 7x57 all the way up to early to mid 60 ks ? (Edit: see post #31).
But back to Jack, - Jack was a reloader, and i think a good few of his loads have been known to be "on the hot side", and not just for the 7x57 but for his 30-06s and 270s as well. This doesnt mean that they were unsafe, in his actions or rifles of course.
As mentioned i am not sure many, Jack included, has much access to pressure testing when building up loads back then, so i could imagine that Jack took an outset in what data he could get access too, and then used his experience from there, probably looking for the same typical signs of (over)pressure that many of us still do to this day, when reloading. But that is just a theory of course.
Another element that could help explain the 53 grns quoted, (other than a typo of course), could be that the specific powders and projectiles used back then are slightly different today. Changes can after all happen to a project over 50-80 years, even if the name doesnt change much.
But yes, Jack OConor might also simply have been loading his 7x57 more aggressively than what many manuals suggest today. Another gun writer, Johns Barness is also a big fan of the little 7, and writes about what he believes could be terms as safe modern loads for the 7x57. But tbh Normas quoted 7x57 loads of today seem to be pretty fast, and i assume that iswhen sticking to the cip limits of 50.565 psi max pressure.
So a valid question might also be if there is much need to push the 7x57 loads much beyond that sort of pressure to chase another 50-75 fps and a bit more energy, if the precision, power and speeds are good at 56.5ks of pressure, and the rifle still feels nice and smooth to shoot ? Maybe if one is occassionally open plains or mounting hunting and could need to stretch it a bit at times?
But each to their own, i just hope that whatever path is chosen, all follows good and safe practice.
Hello Olaf, and thanksNice reply, thanks for the link to another interesting thread too.
I agree on not chasing more velocity with the risk of overcharging. For my intended 7x57 use I’m quite happy with the velocity I can get from my current 140 gr cartridges. They are somewhere between 2600 and 2700 fps and the 120gr are around 3000 fps. All more than enough for the type of hunting I’m going to be using it for.
But man alive, that chap was certainly fond of pushing things with his handloads by the look of it
Kindest regards, Olaf
And yes, it could seem that Jack O'Connor liked his loads a bit on the hot side And check out these modern Norma loads: 7x57 MAUSER | Reloading Data for hand loading ammunition
Quite a few of the old loads are well above recommended max nowadays.Nice reply, thanks for the link to another interesting thread too.
I agree on not chasing more velocity with the risk of overcharging. For my intended 7x57 use I’m quite happy with the velocity I can get from my current 140 gr cartridges. They are somewhere between 2600 and 2700 fps and the 120gr are around 3000 fps. All more than enough for the type of hunting I’m going to be using it for.
But man alive, that chap was certainly fond of pushing things with his handloads by the look of it
Kindest regards, Olaf
