Choosing an all purpose deer rifle (now with non toxic in mind)

[Steve O'shea]

Get on chaps, I know someone will shoot me down for launching a calibre discussion, but with it being announced now that lead is definitely going for 243 and above, I thought it might be time to revisit the subject.
My current centre fire rifles are .223 and .243, 223 was bought for foxing, 243 for deer (and higher velocity fox rifle).
Truth is, the .223 is ample for fox, so especially with that remaining unaffected by the lead restrictions, it'll be the 100% fox rifle.
So for deer, the 243 will be pretty much restricted to about 80gr when lead is no longer on the shelf, which for all species, I think is probably a bit light.
So probably time to change up a bit, guessing the 6.5 creedmoor or .308 would be logical choices, but what about twist rates and handling the non toxic?
I'm the type who's looking for a non exotic calibre because I don't reload, looking for rifle and factory ammunition that can be easily purchased from the average RFD, for example 6.5x55 is not well stocked compared to 6.5 creedmoor in my area, and 7-08 is a no go. Looking for a bit of advise on which way is best to go. I'm after one set up that can handle roe up to red stags, even though roe will be more common practice.
Looking for which calibre has best selection of non toxic factory offerings, as to have a bit of choice on brands, weights and price, (some are ridiculously expensive).
From a quick look myself, .308 seems to be favourable in the ammunition department but it has a lesser twist rate than say the average creedmoor???
Any tried and tested advise greatly appreciated.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

You’re going to be bombarded with every copper bullet known to man .

 

[Border]

Why not try your 243Win with non lead first? Fox, hornady, sako and several others have both bullets and factory ammunition available. 308win is fine with most non lead even though it generally has a 1-11" to 1-12" twist rate..

 

[Acm]

I got rid of a really nice Sako .243 back in 2018 for this reason, and went over to a 6.5 x 55 which I love. In the last 7 years I used the 6.5 and .30-06 a lot, but also re bought a .243 and happily use it with 80grn hornady copper bullets. They are excellent and I’d happily use them on anything I’d have used a 100grn lead for, which I never really rated anyway, an 85grn partition was always my fave lead .243 bullet.

 

[Rutland lad]

Go .308 if your stalking is usually less than 200m.
It’s the nearest to a ‘universal’ calibre and you’ll always find ammo somewhere.
I’ve tried Fox Classic Hunter in 150 grain (factory) and in 130 grain alongside RWS non toxic in my .308.
Both grouped well enough for deer, RWS better than Fox, although a stalking mate thinks the RWS Evogreen is too destructive on deer.
Be aware I’ve not shot deer with either make of ammo - I’ve homeloaded a very accurate recipe for the fox in 150 grain but I waiting for the hind season to open before trying them.

The range of bullet weight in this calibre should mean you’ll find something that’s going to group well and work well.

 

[Mike1979]

6.5 Creed ... no more needs to be discussed

 

[Ratel]

Man Bun Gun seems logical. Just growing mine into two buns so I can get a double.

 

[Steve O'shea]

I got rid of a really nice Sako .243 back in 2018 for this reason, and went over to a 6.5 x 55 which I love. In the last 7 years I used the 6.5 and .30-06 a lot, but also re bought a .243 and happily use it with 80grn hornady copper bullets. They are excellent and I’d happily use them on anything I’d have used a 100grn lead for, which I never really rated anyway, an 85grn partition was always my fave lead .243 bullet.

Thanks for your reply, this is interesting as you've got several options, so if you could only have one deer rifle now, and to be used with non lead, what one would you keep?

I got rid of a really nice Sako .243 back in 2018 for this reason, and went over to a 6.5 x 55 which I love. In the last 7 years I used the 6.5 and .30-06 a lot, but also re bought a .243 and happily use it with 80grn hornady copper bullets. They are excellent and I’d happily use them on anything I’d have used a 100grn lead for, which I never really rated anyway, an 85grn partition was always my fave lead .243 bullet.

 

[Steve O'shea]

Why not try your 243Win with non lead first? Fox, hornady, sako and several others have both bullets and factory ammunition available. 308win is fine with most non lead even though it generally has a 1-11" to 1-12" twist rate..

This is a good point, will pick up a box and give it a try. Best not to be hasty. I suppose a good reason to add to the certificate rather than replace

 

[Mike1979]

6.5 Creed ... no more needs to be discussed

I should have said that I shoot .243 as well and its a great round. Im moving the creed to copper and will probably follow shortly with the .243 and see how it goes,, good shot placement from either and the deer wont notice the difference

 

[Border]

This is a good point, will pick up a box and give it a try. Best not to be hasty. I suppose a good reason to add to the certificate rather than replace

Like lead, you may need to try several brands to see what your rifle likes best. A deep clean may be advisable before shooting non lead.

 

[Acm]

Thanks for your reply, this is interesting as you've got several options, so if you could only have one deer rifle now, and to be used with non lead, what one would you keep?

.30-06, I know it can shoot 110, 130, 150, 165, 170,175, 180 and even 200grain copper bullets. It’s loaded with 175grn Barnes LRX and I’ve shot muntjac to moose with that setup with great performance. For deer and fox the .243 is hard to beat though

 

[timbrayford]

270 is brilliant with both copper and lead projectiles, flat shooting and accurate. Also versatile enough for boar if you are ever lucky enough to get the opportunity.

 

[cjm1066]

Do you want another rifle?

Plenty of threads on here showing copper works, as it does with lead with a suitable bullet.

 

[Heym SR20]

Your 243 with an 80grain monolithic copper will be just fine for 90% of UK deer. The monolithics hold together on one piece so will punch right the way through any deer. And most 80gn loads will be significantly faster than 100gn bullets and thus have more energy. Use something like a Fox or Barnes TTSX 80gn bullet.

I would give these a try before spending lots on changing rifles.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

And most 80gn loads will be significantly faster than 100gn bullets and thus have more energy. Use something like a Fox or Barnes TTSX 80gn bullet.

I'd suggest you check up on that. That isn't the case with most lead free factory offerings not hitting the energy requirement due to low velocity... especially when you add in short barrels.

The majority of lead ammo I've tried including 100g have always been spot on for velocity. Even norma 100g are up at 3kfps whereas RWS and Lapua lead free seem to be around 2800-2850. You've got the CX loads which are around 3kfps but are a light bullet and dont meet requirements, certainly not here in England.

 

[kevtherev]

Try some non lead in your .243 first and see what works.

 

[timbrayford]

Your 243 with an 80grain monolithic copper will be just fine for 90% of UK deer. The monolithics hold together on one piece so will punch right the way through any deer. And most 80gn loads will be significantly faster than 100gn bullets and thus have more energy. Use something like a Fox or Barnes TTSX 80gn bullet.

I would give these a try before spending lots on changing rifles.

Anything larger than roe can run a bit before dropping down dead from the 243 Barnes 80gr combination, switched to 270 for the larger stuff.

 

[nun_hunter]

I started with a 243 and now have a 223, 6.5 Creedmoor and 308. If I had to choose just one rifle I'd keep the 6.5 Creedmoor and if I could keep two then I'd also hold onto the 223.

With ammo availability, reloading suppliesz spare parts etc the Creedmoor will do fine and cover all bases if you want it to.

Yes the 243 will probably work just fine with an 80grain copper bullet but why limit yourself if you don't have to especially as you never know where the future of shooting will take you.

 

[turner.jc1]

If I were to pick just one, a 25/06, 6.5 PRC or .270 would be my go to. All do a similar job using light ~100gr copper.

I like having different rifles for specific tasks, but I can’t see a future for my .308 with non lead for deer. My 25/06 and 6.5 PRC have 80-130 gr non lead covered, so it’s redundant really. I’m sure a 308 works but it’s sub optimal for all round use with copper , especially if limited to one cartridge. Just my opinion