7x57 - the grand cartridge dedicated reloading thread, - let's help each other! :)

[Scipio]

I've just put up a thread and then saw this! I was after opinions on the differences between the following powders: N135, N140 & N150 for a 120gn Barnes TTSX bullet in a 7x57R case!

Hello @Antonyweeks then this should be the right thread, - i believe @Motard shoots the 7x57R in one of his Kiplauffs, so possibly he will see this, and be able to come in with some real life experience

i too considered the 120 ttsx and n150 combo for a long while, and gordons reloading tool projected it to be a very good match Now the R has a slightly lower reccomended operating pressure i believe, so maybe it prefers a slightly different powder,but let's see what motard says. .-)

Note that the below is just a quick software projection, lacking a lot of the accurate data from your rifle, fireformed brass, seating depth etc, but GRT does seem to project a good match between the 7x57R andN150 too ( see image below).
Now i also quickly ran some n140 and n135 projections, which are both quicker powders than the 150, i believe, and they seem close in velocity to the n150 but doesnt better it. And though they too have complete burn rates they are according to GRT expected to fill the case less well than the n150. So according to the software, n150 might be good first powder to look at of the 3 mentioned. But wait and see what posters using this cartridge have of experiences. They might well add something useful and important .-)

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I've just put up a thread and then saw this! I was after opinions on the differences between the following powders: N135, N140 & N150 for a 120gn Barnes TTSX bullet in a 7x57R case!

I have to ask why?

If you want to push a 7 mm bullet is near to 3000 ft./s as possible buy a 270

 

[Scipio]

I have to ask why?

If you want to push a 7 mm bullet is near to 3000 ft./s as possible buy a 270

Hello @Norfolk Deer Search

Well, I dont believe Antony actually ever said, that reaching those speeds was his objective. The loading ladder i ran run through GRT just produced 2900 something fps as a theorized safe max load, using 120 ttsx and n150 powder in the 7x57R cartridge

However if you look at the oldern published data for the 7x57, shooting 140 grn leads at around 2800 fps, or even a bit higher , wasnt uncommon at all. So if one then goes 15-20 gr down in bullet weight when going to non lead solids, well then seeing a potential max velocity of around 3000 fps appearing is only to be expected. And that is without going over pressure, trying to imitate the speeds of the classic 270 Win 130 gr deer and goat hunting loads..

Now one can then discuss if one should indeed go 15-20 or so grn down in bullet weigth when shooting non lead solids vs leads, and that too is naturally a most valdid and welcome discussion. However that is a more general reloading and ammo subject than 7x57 one i believe, and luckily there are several other good threads discussing that already.

 

[Antonyweeks]

For clarification - I'm not after max possible speed. Actually I'm after a pleasant shooting light for calibre bullet as most of the grounds I stalk on insist on non-lead bullets. So I've plumped for the TTSX in 120gn. Online reports seem really good. I'm also going to make up a load for Yewtree bullets as I like them in my other rifles too and Rich is super helpful.
My main question was really whether the different powders would make a huge difference. Reading other replies in other online forums etc it seems N140 might be the best bet for accuracy and a decent speed.
However, I'm a bit of a pleb when it comes to reloading and happy to doff my cap to those with a much greater knowledge of such things!

 

[Scipio]

For clarification - I'm not after max possible speed. Actually I'm after a pleasant shooting light for calibre bullet as most of the grounds I stalk on insist on non-lead bullets. So I've plumped for the TTSX in 120gn. Online reports seem really good. I'm also going to make up a load for Yewtree bullets as I like them in my other rifles too and Rich is super helpful.
My main question was really whether the different powders would make a huge difference. Reading other replies in other online forums etc it seems N140 might be the best bet for accuracy and a decent speed.
However, I'm a bit of a pleb when it comes to reloading and happy to doff my cap to those with a much greater knowledge of such things!

A very sensible approach i think, and let's see if you dont get just that sort of input in here quite soon
@Edinburgh Rifles i see also recomend N140, but for the 7x57 with a 130 grn Fox bullet, not the R with a 120 ttsx. But he might well have an opinion on what goes best with the R and the Barnes ttsx too.

@Antonyweeks once you start reloading and get real world data and experiences back, please do, in your own time of course, come back and share them in the thread. That way the knowledge base grows, and future x57 or x57 R users will be able to learn and take good use of it

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

we already loaded for 7x57R using 130gr too
With the 120gr you may benefit from a faster powder
The lower pressure cartridge impacts the burn of N140 with the lighter 120gr even on a 22" barrel

Drop to N135 and aim for a 2800-2850fps

 

[Scipio]

Thanks for the input @Edinburgh Rifles

If i may ask, it seems that GRT and Quickload have different opinions on the powder densities and thus fill rates for N150 and N140, is that correct? Because for the 7x57 (with 130 fox) GRT keeps producing N150 and N140 as both having a 100% burnrate (in my 20.5 inch barrel), but with the 150 producing a better fillrate than the 140. And it did the same when i ran a GRT projection for antony here between the 140 and 150. So what software should one primarily trust

 

[Scipio]

You'r welcome @Scipio, RS60 seems the universal "Panacea-Powder" if following QL. It is on first place aswell for 6xc and (if I remembre well) ande 6x65R. I hav'nt direct experience with it but is known as a throat and rifle devorer but very capable compund.

Hello @Motard and thank you again for all for of the input

Yes, RS60 seems to be lige magic dust for so many reloading projections, and end up coming out as the top or near top choice.

And to be honest, maybe it is worth considering? I mean if it really does reduce barrel life by 25 percent or so, that still likely leaves many many years of hunting for a caliber like the 7x57. So i am beginning to consider it more, than i intially was.
This said, my local gun shop only carries Norma and Vihtavouri, and the shipment rates for powder are very pricy. So unless i find a RS dealer near Copenhagen, where i could just go past and pick up the powder myself, i might be limited to Viht and Norma.
I am going to visit a shooting club at my range tomorrow, so i'll talk to them too, and hear. Maybe they now where RS is gettable near Copenhagen.

 

[Motard]

Don't under-look Norma. The 204 and the Urp are a good balance between Mono and Double Basic Viht and while been able of developing a good speed those are also soft on barrels. As should also be the Rs 62 (swiss mono)

 

[njc110381]

Personally I'd use a heavier bullet and run it slowly. When I had my 7x57R I was using quite heavy bullets which were loaded to be barely above 1700ft-lbs, our legal minimum here in England. I don't remember the velocity unfortunately. Carcass damage was minimal and I only ever lost one deer to it out of several hundred. I suspect that was me fluffing the shot rather than being the fault of the bullet!

Fast = excessive damage. Your expected ranges are short, you don't need it to shoot flat so why rush things? A gentle load is better for the rifle, better for your wallet and better for the carcass.

 

[Scipio]

Personally I'd use a heavier bullet and run it slowly. When I had my 7x57R I was using quite heavy bullets which were loaded to be barely above 1700ft-lbs, our legal minimum here in England. I don't remember the velocity unfortunately. Carcass damage was minimal and I only ever lost one deer to it out of several hundred. I suspect that was me fluffing the shot rather than being the fault of the bullet!

Fast = excessive damage. Your expected ranges are short, you don't need it to shoot flat so why rush things? A gentle load is better for the rifle, better for your wallet and better for the carcass.

Hey @njc110381 and thanks for the input! would you also think this way if you were forced to use non leads?
Tbh velocity for me is not at all a target by itself. Good ethical Terminal effect and decent hunting accuracy inside those more or less 150 meters is. And If i can get away with that , whilst also being more gentle to my old rifle, well, then all the better to me tbh. .-)

 

[Scipio]

Update: was at the range yesterday to practice a bit with ppu factory loads and harvest brass.
The fired brass has an overflow capacity of 60.8 gr. So a gr more than what GRT has as Their standards.
Doesn't seem to change much in the load projections though.

Next step buying powder (n150 most likely) and get the projectiles shipped in (130 gr Fox) and then start reloading.

Once again thanks for all the advice so far! .-)

 

[njc110381]

Hey @njc110381 and thanks for the input! would you also think this way if you were forced to use non leads?
Tbh velocity for me is not at all a target by itself. Good ethical Terminal effect and decent hunting accuracy inside those more or less 150 meters is. And If i can get away with that , whilst also being more gentle to my old rifle, well, then all the better to me tbh. .-)

I've never had an issue with the heavier copper offerings expanding. I think that's more common when ranges are pushed. Close up they all work.

 

[Scipio]

I've never had an issue with the heavier copper offerings expanding. I think that's more common when ranges are pushed. Close up they all work.

Good to hear

 

[Heym SR20]

Hello @Motard and thank you again for all for of the input

Yes, RS60 seems to be lige magic dust for so many reloading projections, and end up coming out as the top or near top choice.

And to be honest, maybe it is worth considering? I mean if it really does reduce barrel life by 25 percent or so, that still likely leaves many many years of hunting for a caliber like the 7x57. So i am beginning to consider it more, than i intially was.
This said, my local gun shop only carries Norma and Vihtavouri, and the shipment rates for powder are very pricy. So unless i find a RS dealer near Copenhagen, where i could just go past and pick up the powder myself, i might be limited to Viht and Norma.
I am going to visit a shooting club at my range tomorrow, so i'll talk to them too, and hear. Maybe they now where RS is gettable near Copenhagen.

Powder choice should really be dictated by what is readily available near you. No point in getting about powders that simply are not available locally.

You might read about how wonderful say IMR4350 is in 7x57, then find the author is in the USA, and IMR powders no longer meet EU Reach regs and thus is no longer imported.

Provided you use a powder with an appropriate burn rate for your cartridge in question you have a very strong likelihood of developing a load that works well in your rifle capable of any normal hunting use.

More focus should really be put on the choice of bullet and its terminal performance.

The competition shooters can and do get very excited by powder choice. In the club we have a number of F Class shooters who compete internationally. They buy powder in largest tubs they can buy. And they can measure the difference between tubs and lott numbers. We are though talking about few mm in change in point of impact or group size. This is the difference between winning a match or getting knocked out in the first round.

But all those differences are well within 1 minute of angle on target. So from a hunting perspective of little consequence.

 

[Heym SR20]

The beauty of the 7x57 is that it just plain works. It’s not a high pressure over bore type cartridge. It works well at 50 to 55,000 psi sorts of levels propelling a 130 to 145 grain copper projectile at 2800 ish fps (depending on bullet, load and barrel length of course). Set the sights at 4 to 5cm high at 100m it will a centre of kill zone hold out to a bit over 200.

On impact the bullet will expand enough to give a good wound channel but will also penetrate deeply. Meat damage will be minimal. Small deer will mostly be knocked over on the spot as a 1 and a bit diameter projectile going through a heart the size of tennis ball drops blood pressure very quickly.

Bigger deer, including red stags are just that - much bigger, so proportionally the wound path is smaller and it will take a little longer for blood pressure to drop. I have found that reds tend to stagger, take a few steps and then fall over dead.

You can load up a modern 7x57 to reach 3000 odd fps. But you don’t need to. It works as it is.

 

[Scipio]

Hello Heym, and as always thank you for the experience based input. Just starting out with this, such advice is much apreciated

It does seem that i am fortunately about to start reloading for a quite forgiving cartridge, which is of course helpful .-) And yeah, as you know i am not a target shooter nor am in search of a speed demon load at all.
i'll be quite happy to load with a non super hot powder as long as it gets me a consistent and good load, using a good bullet for the prey and distances i intend to hunt at.
I'm going up the the dealership i trust the most this coming week, and talk to to them about it, and then purchase. As far as i know they carry Viht and Norma powders only, so it will likely end up with one of those. N150 is the one that on paper seems to suit the 7x57 and 130 fox classic bullet best, but i'll go there and listent to them first of course

This is going to be a fun route of discovery and betterment, and i look forwards to be able to report back some results eventually, and give know how back to this thread. The next month should accellerate things on this front.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I underloaded 100 7x65Rs for a mate for his new to him Sauer drilling. The recoil was reduced to 7x57R levels and he was over the moon as it was hole in hole accuracy with 20 minutes between shots. But he also wanted an insert full length .22 Hornet barrel in one of the shot barrels, result was it destroyed the accuracy and the makers of the insert have offered to refund for him. He has sent the complete drilling to them to investigate. I assume it blew the barrel harmonics to sh*t.

 

[Heym SR20]

Hello Heym, and as always thank you for the experience based input. Just starting out with this, such advice is much apreciated

It does seem that i am fortunately about to start reloading for a quite forgiving cartridge, which is of course helpful .-) And yeah, as you know i am not a target shooter nor am in search of a speed demon load at all.
i'll be quite happy to load with a non super hot powder as long as it gets me a consistent and good load, using a good bullet for the prey and distances i intend to hunt at.
I'm going up the the dealership i trust the most this coming week, and talk to to them about it, and then purchase. As far as i know they carry Viht and Norma powders only, so it will likely end up with one of those. N150 is the one that on paper seems to suit the 7x57 and 130 fox classic bullet best, but i'll go there and listent to them first of course

This is going to be a fun route of discovery and betterment, and i look forwards to be able to report back some results eventually, and give know how back to this thread. The next month should accellerate things on this front.

Your welcome.

I am using the standard factory load with 42grains of N140 in mine. It just seems to work well.

Published data here at bottom of page

Fox Non Lead Bullets – Edinburgh Rifles

 

[Scipio]

I underloaded 100 7x65Rs for a mate for his new to him Sauer drilling. The recoil was reduced to 7x57R levels and he was over the moon as it was hole in hole accuracy with 20 minutes between shots. But he also wanted an insert full length .22 Hornet barrel in one of the shot barrels, result was it destroyed the accuracy and the makers of the insert have offered to refund for him. He has sent the complete drilling to them to investigate. I assume it blew the barrel harmonics to sh*t.

Uargh. And yeah it Could sound like it alright. :-/

but if the harmonics change, shouldn't a new load development process fix it, just as long as the changes in harmonics are consistent?

Sorry if this is a newbie question of sorts, but, well, I am a reloading newbie