Winchester 760 / H 414 or the equivalent powders you can obtain in the UK will get you the best velocity in the 7 x57 . Been reloading with hornady 139 interlock, Sierra pro hunter with this powder for years it just works. Good for the heavier pills as well 160s. Primers in my experience don't have that much influence on the outcome of the load if you've done everything else properly. Some of the new projectiles like the eldm work rather well in the old 7x57. Flat base projectiles can make a huge difference if you're having trouble getting good groups. BSAs definitely don't like boattails in my experience. Hope this helps.Hello Lads and Ladies, i am about to start reloading for my 7x57 in the coming weeks, and having bumped into a good few other 7x57 users on here, many of which who are also reloading for it, i thought why not start a dedicated 7x57 reloading thread.
A thread where we can gather our collective experiences, give each other advice and hopefully help each forwards
My plan is to go with:
Projectile: 120 grs Barnes ttsx,
Powder: Vihtavuori N150
Brass: Once used ppu brass
Primer: Advice most welcome!
Seating depth: Advice most welcome! But i reckon my rifle has quite a long freebore, so even if i sit it far out, it will likely be jumping a fair bit.
The rifle being loaded for is:
Model: Mannlicher Schoenauer GK Stutzen
Barrel length: 20.5 inches/52 centimeters
Year of production: Mid to late 60ies estimated
Condition: Good (and i had it checked by a well reknowned gunsmith when i bought it).
Gordons Reloading tool is projecting this, ((although i have yet to obtain my functional case capacity or insert the actual seating depth):View attachment 435995
7x57 - the grand cartridge dedicated reloading thread, - let's help each other! :)
- Thread starter Scipio
- Start date
BSA Birmingham Small Arms company.Sorry don't get the meaning og BSAs cause my poor English
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
@Scipio
Herewith some home-loads (non-lead); made for an upcoming trip, to the Highlands.
They have grouped well at the range.
With my previous experience of @Yew Tree Fieldsports bullets (.243 & .308), I am not expecting any dramas in 'real' life.
Herewith some home-loads (non-lead); made for an upcoming trip, to the Highlands.
They have grouped well at the range.
With my previous experience of @Yew Tree Fieldsports bullets (.243 & .308), I am not expecting any dramas in 'real' life.
Motard
Well-Known Member
I thought about but had no idea BSA was making rifles, only airguns. I know it was a very good factory (so was Diana here) but think unfortunately lost the first places now.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
BSA made many many many rifles - they used to make a large proportion of the Lee Enfields and the earlier Martini as well Lewis guns abd parts for other weapons that armed Britain, the British Empire and her allies.
They started out as a group of gunmakers working together in the 1850’s to 1860’s to use machine tools guns that had interchangeable parts. Particularly important for military, so you can easily switch a part in the field. Up till that point most firearms and many any other machine, were made by hand, with parts hand fitted.
They diversified into making bycles and motor bikes as these use pretty much the same machinery as making guns.
Like many companies, they had a long and varied history, with many poor decisions (or poor if you look back, but probably perfectly good decisions at the time).
Birmingham Small Arms Company - Wikipedia
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Cheers @Kiwiroger That's very useful advice.
I must admit i had never heard of the BT to flatbase potential accuracy fix in the 7x57s . Is this a 7x57 thing, or something that goes for many older rifles, or perhaps just rifles in general?I'm based in Denmark, and not the UK, so i am not sure i can get 760/414, but i can probably get powders in that range.
ha, Diana!!! a blast from a very fun past of shooting airguns out in the backyard
Cheers Jura .-)
Nice presentation of both gun and load @Stalker62 ,-D Did you have any second thoughts about using the "hot" RS 60 in such a fine old lady as this one? .-)
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Stalker62
Well-Known Member
@Scipio
Whilst I have absolute confidence in the barrel (I think for its time, it was excellent quality), and the chap who built it; I see no point in 'kicking the arse' out of a barrel...
...for do discernible effect.
Most of my stalking is around the 100 yards range, and very, very seldom, does it go over 200 yards.
She is an old lady, and needs not to be treated unkindly...
Whilst I have absolute confidence in the barrel (I think for its time, it was excellent quality), and the chap who built it; I see no point in 'kicking the arse' out of a barrel...
...for do discernible effect.
Most of my stalking is around the 100 yards range, and very, very seldom, does it go over 200 yards.
She is an old lady, and needs not to be treated unkindly...
Motard
Well-Known Member
You got a very good advise from Kiwiroger but, as often in reloading, there is a penalthy to pay for. Apologize if I appear being pendantic noi ipercritic. In real lifeI like and use fb bulletts but on the rifles & loads that bear a rainbow trajectory. This because in my experience flat base offer a real advantage, and exceptional precisiontoo, untill 200mt. Past this distance rise the reign of boat tails, to me.Cheers @Kiwiroger That's very useful advice.
I'm based in Denmark, and not the UK, so i am not sure i can get 760/414, but i can probably get powders in that range.
ha, Diana!!! a blast from a very fun past of shooting airguns out in the backyard
Cheers Jura .-)
Nice presentation of both gun and load @Stalker62 ,-D Did you have any second thoughts about using the "hot" RS 60 in such a fine old lady as this one? .-)
Scipio
Well-Known Member
hahaha, yes, i agree, and i see my older lady in much the same way@Scipio
Whilst I have absolute confidence in the barrel (I think for its time, it was excellent quality), and the chap who built it; I see no point in 'kicking the arse' out of a barrel...
View attachment 436605
...for do discernible effect.
Most of my stalking is around the 100 yards range, and very, very seldom, does it go over 200 yards.
She is an old lady, and needs not to be treated unkindly...
View attachment 436606
- but that is why i was curious as to you going for the quick but hot RS 60, - but then again, i guess some grandma's can still drive a ferrari as well as most younger chaps and ladies ,D
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Once more thank you for the real life advice @Motard , it really is much appreciated,
- ok, but since this load and gun is my sub 200 (and likely sub 150) meter rifle, this suits my needs really well. I see the fox classic are flat based whereas the barnes ttsx and tsx'es i can get are BT.One more stone in the basket for the 130 fox, then.
Also, the kind of old school cone shaped projectile that the fox is, in the short old school stutzen, just kind of makes sense and suits each other, i think.
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I think the whole fun of old rifles, boats and cars is just to accept they are what they are. Old wooden Folkboats like mine are not the fastest, best pointing or most comfortable of boats. Keep them out ofvthe water, they are then a pain (well actually) in the arse and till they take up and float. They are then an utter pleasure, not only to yourself but to all around.
My sisters found photos of my Pa (who died in mid August) with Mannlicher Scoeneur rifle on Kafue River holding up a Spur Wing Goose. That photo must 1956 or so. It hs open sights. That rifle is long gone, but I have used others since. The sights are graduated out to 300m, and if your eyesight is good you can shoot accurately that far. But most using such a rifle will get in much closer than that.
Many African PHs use open sighted rifles. They don’t actually shoot much if they do their job correctly, but when they do, it is usually at close range and the last thing you need is a scope getting in the way, catching the undergrowth and blocking all your peripheral vision.
Coming back to old stalking rifles. No they are not modern target, practical, designated marksmen or sniper focused rifles that make hitting targets at 500m plus really very easy. They might not be able to shoot tiny little groups. But realistically if you can hit a coke can you can hunt with it. If you can only hit the can at 50m keep shots on game within that distance. If its 200 then a bit less should be your maximum.
And unless you are hunting in very open flat country with little vegetation, then getting within 150 should be well within the skills of most competent hunters.
My sisters found photos of my Pa (who died in mid August) with Mannlicher Scoeneur rifle on Kafue River holding up a Spur Wing Goose. That photo must 1956 or so. It hs open sights. That rifle is long gone, but I have used others since. The sights are graduated out to 300m, and if your eyesight is good you can shoot accurately that far. But most using such a rifle will get in much closer than that.
Many African PHs use open sighted rifles. They don’t actually shoot much if they do their job correctly, but when they do, it is usually at close range and the last thing you need is a scope getting in the way, catching the undergrowth and blocking all your peripheral vision.
Coming back to old stalking rifles. No they are not modern target, practical, designated marksmen or sniper focused rifles that make hitting targets at 500m plus really very easy. They might not be able to shoot tiny little groups. But realistically if you can hit a coke can you can hunt with it. If you can only hit the can at 50m keep shots on game within that distance. If its 200 then a bit less should be your maximum.
And unless you are hunting in very open flat country with little vegetation, then getting within 150 should be well within the skills of most competent hunters.
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Hello Heym
I tend to agree, as you know, and the sailing boat analogy is funny, as i sail too, and also have a soft spot for wooden boats. As you say, seeing something beautiful that just looks and feels right and organic in nature is a pleasure. Not just for the owner, but for the other beholders as well.
Well besides when you have to carry out maintenance, then the wood hulled boats are a bit less charming, lol ,D
But yep, this load and this rifle isnt meant to be some super duper 1000 yard shooting thing, but rather an iron sighted + low powered (1.5x4x) scoped forrest and meadow hunting rifle. And the closer i get, the happier i'll be. Gear down and skill up shall be the mantra, and if all goes well i shall in time become more and more inclined to not use the scope at all. I think this project shall bring great gains
This said, i bloody well hope that i can hit a coke can 50 meters once i am done
And maybe a bit beyond that too ,)
Once more thank you to all the contributors to this thread .-) And once i can report back with feedback to maybe help other 7x57 reloaders on, i shall of course do so. .-)
I tend to agree, as you know, and the sailing boat analogy is funny, as i sail too, and also have a soft spot for wooden boats. As you say, seeing something beautiful that just looks and feels right and organic in nature is a pleasure. Not just for the owner, but for the other beholders as well.
Well besides when you have to carry out maintenance, then the wood hulled boats are a bit less charming, lol ,D
But yep, this load and this rifle isnt meant to be some super duper 1000 yard shooting thing, but rather an iron sighted + low powered (1.5x4x) scoped forrest and meadow hunting rifle. And the closer i get, the happier i'll be. Gear down and skill up shall be the mantra, and if all goes well i shall in time become more and more inclined to not use the scope at all. I think this project shall bring great gains
This said, i bloody well hope that i can hit a coke can 50 meters once i am done
And maybe a bit beyond that too ,)Once more thank you to all the contributors to this thread .-) And once i can report back with feedback to maybe help other 7x57 reloaders on, i shall of course do so. .-)
Motard
Well-Known Member
In short flat base bullet fully seal the gap between projectile and barrel: no gas surrounding a boat tail, less vortex that can distrurb trajectory. Untill 200 or so meters.. then come in play the bc and you'll loose the initial advantage . but hunting at normal range you will be more thanOnce more thank you for the real life advice @Motard , it really is much appreciated,
One more stone in the basket for the 130 fox, then.
Also, the kind of old school cone shaped projectile that the fox is, in the short old school stutzen, just kind of makes sense and suits each other, i think.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Powder Choices - there are lots of different powders all around the World. The Americans have all the IMR, Hodgson etc. Europeans have Norma, Vihtavouri, RS and quite a few others only available in say Germany, South Africa, Australia all have something else. To be honest most major countries with significant military industries will have various powder manufacturing facilities, some of which may sell powder in 1kg tubs to reloaders, many will not.
Reloading manuals, reloading data in magazine articles etc are all dedicated to their domestic audience. So a German publication will mostly focus on German available Powders, projectiles and primers, whilst a South African one on South African products.
I really wouldn’t loose any sleep on trying ti get all exited about load data based on materials that you cannot get from you local firearms retailer.
Key with a rifle cartridge, is yo use powder designed for a rifle cartridge with a burn rate that is similar to that of others recommended for that cartridge or something similar.
What you absolutely must NOT do is to use a case full of PISTOL or Shotgun powder in your rifle. These both burn much much faster than rifle powder and will give a massive spike in pressure. Case will let go, and chances are the rifle will let go. If you are lucky you may get away with powder burns etc.
Reloading manuals, reloading data in magazine articles etc are all dedicated to their domestic audience. So a German publication will mostly focus on German available Powders, projectiles and primers, whilst a South African one on South African products.
I really wouldn’t loose any sleep on trying ti get all exited about load data based on materials that you cannot get from you local firearms retailer.
Key with a rifle cartridge, is yo use powder designed for a rifle cartridge with a burn rate that is similar to that of others recommended for that cartridge or something similar.
What you absolutely must NOT do is to use a case full of PISTOL or Shotgun powder in your rifle. These both burn much much faster than rifle powder and will give a massive spike in pressure. Case will let go, and chances are the rifle will let go. If you are lucky you may get away with powder burns etc.
Motard
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's is the great KAABOOM!. Extremely dangerous, it may occur as Heyms says, using pistol or shotgun powders in a rifle cartridge, but also with a rather empty cartridge althought if with the correct powder, or shooting a second round with a previous bullet stuck in the barrel (ie if you forgot powder but the primer was able to send the projectile out of the case but not from barrel) . Consequences can be terribly nasty. The first thing I learned when starting loading was to "work in batch". I mean after having prep the brass dispose cases on the holding tablet, prime them ALL and check ALL, then fill them ALL and check them ALL, seat ALL the bullet and check them all..... So check, check, check and if in doubt discard eventually the entire batch, dismantle the rounds and start again from scratc.Loading is under ours responsibility but consequences may involves other persons..
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Update: Well i'm just back from Sweden, with the training ammo acquired. So saturday it's range time, having some fun and harvesting some brass, and then it's back to la casa to measure the internal volume of the once fired brass.
From there i'll run some further loads projections in GRT with the new data, and then decide finally on the powder and bullet. But i'm leaning heavily towards N150 and the Fox 130 grn hunter classics, i have to say.
Once more thank you all the helpful posts, and the know how harvested in this process will of course be given back into the thread, including when i can observe the loaded ammos performance in the field on various game. Evvia! .-)
From there i'll run some further loads projections in GRT with the new data, and then decide finally on the powder and bullet. But i'm leaning heavily towards N150 and the Fox 130 grn hunter classics, i have to say.
Once more thank you all the helpful posts, and the know how harvested in this process will of course be given back into the thread, including when i can observe the loaded ammos performance in the field on various game. Evvia! .-)
Antonyweeks
Well-Known Member
I've just put up a thread and then saw this! I was after opinions on the differences between the following powders: N135, N140 & N150 for a 120gn Barnes TTSX bullet in a 7x57R case!
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