HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Unless one of the ones he built with the David Lloyd style rings that can’t be replaced or scopes changed. He didn’t do many, but he did do some.
Shultz & Larsen Victory vs custom with an FN Mauser Action
- Thread starter PostmanPat
- Start date
I’ll leave this here in case it is of interest
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That is absolutely lovelyI’ll leave this here in case it is of interest
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PostmanPat
Well-Known Member
That is a bit of serendipity. Exactly what I am after thanksI’ll leave this here in case it is of interest
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HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Can’t change scope with those rings, there are no screws to open them with, so any scope issues you have to find a smith who can take a scope to pieces, repair it, and rebuild it inside the rings, then re gas it. Or an optics repair centre with an RFD.
Don’t get me wrong, love his rifles, but David Lloyd and TT didn’t do themselves any favours soldering rings to the actions. Low, yes, strong, yes, flexible to work with, no.
I’d take this one personally, also gives you open sight access - HOLTS Auctioneers , but you’ll have to beat my bid too
should go between £1600 and £2200 I reckon, it’s one of the few oberndorfs Rigby didn’t mutilate excessively
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Stalker62
Well-Known Member
The estimate seems remarkable low for a .275 Rigby.
I also note the 'cracked' stock.
It will be interesting to see what it eventually goes for.
PostmanPat
Well-Known Member
Are you sure you can't remove that scope? there are 4 screws at the top of the split rings and the 6.5 for sale on here has the same mechanism and the owner stated in the chat below that the scope can be removed. Although, I confess I don't see how if the base is solderedCan’t change scope with those rings, there are no screws to open them with, so any scope issues you have to find a smith who can take a scope to pieces, repair it, and rebuild it inside the rings, then re gas it. Or an optics repair centre with an RFD.
Don’t get me wrong, love his rifles, but David Lloyd and TT didn’t do themselves any favours soldering rings to the actions. Low, yes, strong, yes, flexible to work with, no.
I’d take this one personally, also gives you open sight access - HOLTS Auctioneers , but you’ll have to beat my bid too
Could the soldered rings not be milled flat and a more conventional scope base added?Can’t change scope with those rings, there are no screws to open them with, so any scope issues you have to find a smith who can take a scope to pieces, repair it, and rebuild it inside the rings, then re gas it. Or an optics repair centre with an RFD.
Don’t get me wrong, love his rifles, but David Lloyd and TT didn’t do themselves any favours soldering rings to the actions. Low, yes, strong, yes, flexible to work with, no.
I’d take this one personally, also gives you open sight access - HOLTS Auctioneers , but you’ll have to beat my bid too
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
No. The action has been fitted with specially profiled rings that are silver soldered and will stay where they are. Removing them will mean heating the receiver and having to re harden. No bueno.
The two screws at the top are to clamp it tight. But to fit and remove a scope, you have to unscrew the ocular lens housing and disassemble, you have to remove all turret and turret fixtures until you have a clean tube you can slide out forwards.
Only period scopes will allow you to do this, so in reality, in real world reality, if the scope breaks, the rifle is finished unless you can find another period scope and someone to rebuild it inside the rings. I don’t know a single smith in the UK who does high end optical repairs on vintage scopes, and also is an RFD. Then, what if the new scope isn’t sitting in a way that allows it to zero due to lack of adjustment range? Or the ocular bell housing diameter is slightly larger so it fouls exceptionally low bolt shroud.
These are wonderful rifles, and beautifully built, but IMHO, perfect for if you have plenty of money and just want a piece of history for a nice sunny Saturday roebuck stalk every couple of weeks, and you realise it’s just like owning an old sports car.
The two screws at the top are to clamp it tight. But to fit and remove a scope, you have to unscrew the ocular lens housing and disassemble, you have to remove all turret and turret fixtures until you have a clean tube you can slide out forwards.
Only period scopes will allow you to do this, so in reality, in real world reality, if the scope breaks, the rifle is finished unless you can find another period scope and someone to rebuild it inside the rings. I don’t know a single smith in the UK who does high end optical repairs on vintage scopes, and also is an RFD. Then, what if the new scope isn’t sitting in a way that allows it to zero due to lack of adjustment range? Or the ocular bell housing diameter is slightly larger so it fouls exceptionally low bolt shroud.
These are wonderful rifles, and beautifully built, but IMHO, perfect for if you have plenty of money and just want a piece of history for a nice sunny Saturday roebuck stalk every couple of weeks, and you realise it’s just like owning an old sports car.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
See above reply. The owner of said rifle is right, it can be removed, but only by taking the scope to pieces. I raised it on the post and I got a sharp PM from him stating that I wasn’t helping the sale, it’s hard enough already! Wow, put in my place just trying to make people known the limitations, not trying to kill his sale, but what wrong with disclosing the limitations? Says something right?
I've been looking at these with a re-barrel in mind but concerned about barrel profile compatability. That the scope is set so low is delightful and as it should be IMHO. However, for once I'm not keen to ask the 'smith to mill a barrel/chamber slot for the objective to sit in!
K
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HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Most of his rifles were built on oberndorfs or argy 1909’s, so just a standard large ring m98 thread. The drop in lothar Walter barrels have long parallel surfaces in front of the barrel tenon, so likely could be an issue, I’d suggest asking a smith to profile a barrel to exactly the same as what you take off, that way the inletting in the barrel channel won’t look downright bad.
I, personally, would never bother to re barrel a rifle with this type of soldered on scope rings.
Also bear in mind what round the builder polished the feed ramp, lips for, adjusted the extractor claw, and possibly bolt size face in the case of David Lloyd.
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Mauser-Oberndorf Repetierbüchse 6,5x68 - Gunfinder it's a 6.5x65 i believe, not x68.
Scipio
Well-Known Member
But @triggertrix may i ask what it is about the Mausers, and perhaps especially the Obendorf Mausers, that you appreciate so much ? 
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
But @triggertrix may i ask what it is about the Mausers, and perhaps especially the Obendorf Mausers, that you appreciate so much ?
the Mauser 98, it’s one of those things! The best action ever made, and the most reliable.Oberndorfs, well, they were the ones made with the best quality metal, bestHest treatment, best finish, highest tolerances, the beautiful rollstamp, an intermediate length for the 7x57, and that stunning pear shaped bolt handle, done commercially turned down. If you see an oberndorf handle and eject compared to almost any other Mauser 98, you’ll ‘know’
Scipio
Well-Known Member
So the action length on an obendorf mauser is intermediate, but long for most other Mauser 98s? But going on your description, it seems like a thing one has to see and feel to really understand
Oberndorfs, well, they were the ones made with the best quality metal, bestHest treatment, best finish, highest tolerances, the beautiful rollstamp, an intermediate length for the 7x57, and that stunning pear shaped bolt handle, done commercially turned down. If you see an oberndorf handle and eject compared to almost any other Mauser 98, you’ll ‘know’
Too bad this one is in the short throated 6.5x65, as with non leads becoming the norm, that might not do it any favors.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Ahh, no, 99% are long action, but they made a special intermediate length for the 7x57. I can run copper just fine in my intermediateSo the action length on an obendorf mauser is intermediate, but long for most other Mauser 98s? But going on your description, it seems like a thing one has to see and feel to really understand
Too bad this one is in the short throated 6.5x65, as with non leads becoming the norm, that might not do it any favors.
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
I’m 100% with triggertrix - the 98 is the best action ever made, and of them the sporting Oberndorf has the most allure. They got everything just right, and there is something about having the words “Mauser-Werke AG Oberndorf AN” on the LH sidewall that gives me makes me feel warm and fuzzy… however, the original stocks are not suitable for a scope, and they really shouldn’t be drilled and tapped. There are plenty of military Oberndorf actions that have been built into fantastic sporters, however I’m not sure id technically place them ahead of say a VZ24 or military FN. But not behind either (not a post 1920s one anyway).
Oberndorf built their sporting 7x57s on their intermediate action, but most of their military ones were in the regular “long action”, but this is a bit of a minefield as there are quite a few oddballs.
In answer to the original question, there is no doubt in my mind a well built 98 sporter (FN commercial is great, but so are many others) is going to be a better long term option than a S&L (nice as they are). A good quality barrel fitted by a good gunsmith in a properly bedded stock with a decent trigger will be as accurate as a S&L (the lock time won’t have an affect on anything bar competition target shooting where they’re chasing 1/1000s of an MOA), but with that unrivalled confidence and satisfaction of ejecting and feeding only a CRF can provide, along with unrivalled class and multigenerational longevity.
Oberndorf built their sporting 7x57s on their intermediate action, but most of their military ones were in the regular “long action”, but this is a bit of a minefield as there are quite a few oddballs.
In answer to the original question, there is no doubt in my mind a well built 98 sporter (FN commercial is great, but so are many others) is going to be a better long term option than a S&L (nice as they are). A good quality barrel fitted by a good gunsmith in a properly bedded stock with a decent trigger will be as accurate as a S&L (the lock time won’t have an affect on anything bar competition target shooting where they’re chasing 1/1000s of an MOA), but with that unrivalled confidence and satisfaction of ejecting and feeding only a CRF can provide, along with unrivalled class and multigenerational longevity.
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Surely you’d just machine them off then D&T. Or even better cut them into a dovetail to fit one of the commonly available rings eg CZ, weaver etc.
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